Scuderia Ferrari SF71H

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter does not belong here.
Peter1919
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF71H

Post by Peter1919 » Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:49 am

zokipirlo wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:30 am
Is it possible that this mirrors works like drs, with moving inner black part of mirror?
That would be a moving aerodynamic part which would be against F1's rules

f1316
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF71H

Post by f1316 » Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:54 am

Peter1919 wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:49 am
zokipirlo wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:30 am
Is it possible that this mirrors works like drs, with moving inner black part of mirror?
That would be a moving aerodynamic part which would be against F1's rules
Not if there was some kind of fluidic switch; but I don’t see why you’d want that here - why wouldn’t it just always be open?

Vanja #66
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF71H

Post by Vanja #66 » Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:38 am

PlatinumZealot wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 11:53 pm
What do you say to this: The actual radiator inlet is not the visible part that we see. Those are merely guides in front of it. The lower main guide hole goes straight rearward and down, and the top hole goes down inside and splays outboard (or vice-versa). Dare I say the actual real radiator inlet is the same size as any other F1 cars - it's just hidden like last year's SF-70H.
This is basically my view as well. We are talking about semantics right now, should we call it front and top inlet, or is it just one single inlet with flow conditioners in it (the flaps on top of frontal inlet). In reality, it's not the same situation as last year, when we'd be more right than wrong to say - it's two inlets - because of the difference in lateral dimensions. Now, it's probably more accurate to say it's a single inlet (about the same size as any other, as you say) sitting at an angle and with flaps as flow conditioners to guide the air down the intake where it's needed.

wuzak wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:21 am
If the side impact structure isn't in the lower lip of the radiator inlet, where is it?
What I was referring to in the post you quote is this:

Image

Image

SF70-H had a wide tub, with integrated bottom side pod inlet lip. Now, this piece of bodywork is a separate part (bodywork separation lines tell us this), screwed on the tub. Side impact structure is still there in the middle, but bodywork is a separate piece around it. This saves the cost for tooling manufacture and material for the tub, as well as giving the team an option to swap different designs. My guess is that it's not an easy thing to achieve (structurally most likely), since it took the team a year to make it so.

Just_a_fan wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 11:32 pm
The camber of the wing is from the leading edge of the first element to the trailing edge of the last element.

***
I am enjoying this discussion very much. Please allow me the time to make some appropriate drawings worthy of this forum, to help me illustrate my thoughts. :)

JasonF1 wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:01 am
What Just_a_fan said regarding the slot is correct, the slots themselves doesn't make the vortex stronger, they actually weaken it. A Mclaren engineer was talking about it last season and that's what he implied.
This subject will also be covered in my reply to just_a_fan. Is there perhaps a video, or an article with a quote from this engineer on the subject?
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

#Aerogimli
#DwarvesAreNaturalSprinters
#BlessYouLaddie

Vanja #66
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF71H

Post by Vanja #66 » Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:22 pm

JasonF1 wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:10 am
Here is how it may look like inside the mirror:

https://i.imgur.com/6tdUtIa.jpg
Is this your illustration? In my opinion, it shows correctly the inside of the mirror, just not the overall flow structure. Here's why. Take a look at my (very humble) illustration of airflow around SF70-H side pod inlet and a bit inside the intake as well. It was made a year ago.

Image

In front of every opening on bodywork, every slot or similar, there will be a high pressure zone. The air will want to go around this zone, either up, down or sideways. You can see this on any flow viz photo of side pod inlet, like this (I even made an accidental prophecy on MCL33 inlet shape, yay me):

Image

Along with that, every non-symmetrical airfoil causes a disturbance in airflow direction before and after it passes the airfoil/wing.

Image

Image

This is a very nice explanation on the subject of airfoil lift. "The amount of lift generated by an object depends on how much the flow is turned, which depends on the shape of the object." The bigger the curve - camber - of airfoil (flaps and slats are considered as theoretical parts of airfoil), the bigger the lift and consequently - the bigger the angle of airflow bend before and after the airfoil. These are some very cambered airfoils in SF70 and 71 radiator inlets.

Now, when you put all these things together, you can see how I saw the airflow around SF70-H. I don't think anything has dramatically changed there, mirrors were put very high to prevent flow obstruction at first. They were brought down a bit once team was confident they wouldn't interfere significantly. Now they are in same position as last year, with some slots.

In my view, these slots couldn't possibly turn the airflow around as much as illustrated on the picture you posted. Firstly, you'd need a big piece of bodywork to make a bend in airflow that big. Secondly, as mentioned before, in front of every opening there's a high pressure zone. This would make it an adverse pressure gradient for oncoming airflow and it would want to go around it, not towards it. It would be an entirely different story if there was a very low pressure zone inside the radiator intake. :)
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

#Aerogimli
#DwarvesAreNaturalSprinters
#BlessYouLaddie

MtthsMlw
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF71H

Post by MtthsMlw » Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:14 pm

:D :D :D

MtthsMlw
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF71H

Post by MtthsMlw » Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:19 pm

On track
floor slots now visible

Image
Image

No weird hole in the floor behind the bargeboards, just the 'normal teeth'
Image
Last edited by MtthsMlw on Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

paddyf1
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF71H

Post by paddyf1 » Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:38 pm

Peter1919 wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:49 am
zokipirlo wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:30 am
Is it possible that this mirrors works like drs, with moving inner black part of mirror?
That would be a moving aerodynamic part which would be against F1's rules
They are just to direct airflow into the upper side pod air intake, if you look from above its perfectly aligned.

jonas_linder
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF71H

Post by jonas_linder » Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:10 pm

With regards to the "holes" in the floor below the sidepods, look at the video for the car during Sebs interview in the beginning of this video:


Bomber_Pilot
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF71H

Post by Bomber_Pilot » Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:18 pm

Mirrors are located way too back for them to be feeding the upper sidepod slot. They are sloted purely for drag reduction.

Sevach
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF71H

Post by Sevach » Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:27 pm

Those floor slots...

The forward looks open like in the early season SF70-H, there's barely a connection.
And the ones in front of the rear tires look like fully enclosed holes...

I wonder if Ferrari is playing games or have their manufacturing precision reached new heights.

f1316
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF71H

Post by f1316 » Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:47 pm

Are my eyes tricking me or something funny going on here:

Image

Like a second element of floor coming down?

mmred
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF71H

Post by mmred » Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:49 pm

this year ferrari is even more revolutionary on cooling
while the concept remains the same ( take clear air from above, and impact as less as possible both frontal section and the underwork of the sidepods ) the increase in size of the upper slot reveals that the efficiency improvement is exactly in taking this flux even directing it with mirror underside ( not the slots they are for wake reduction by lowering pressure as redbull nose ) but mostly with the lower pressure of the intake cavity, doing at the same time structural function ( the crash integrated like last year ) cooling ( the two mouths ) and sidepod detachment prevention ( the deviation impressed from the upper mouth keeps the flux attached and fuels the diffuser even from above , at least better than normal solutions that have to use a lot of elements there to prevent further detachment )

i dont think it can be compared with other radiator sizes, cause it walks parallel to the flow and not normal, so of course the section is not the same (but the frontal part is very very little ) but that s exactly the feature, it cant be compared cause it uses a whole different concept.

the aero looks top notch
tororosso and mclaren front wing solutions coexist well with it

lateral deviators remain not mercedes style and littler ( to compromise with resistance, compromises that mercedes can afford to play differently )
the only other interesting solution seen so far is the extreme rastremation of mercedes sidepods ( like they litteraly have no radiators, but it s also matter of covering or not rear suspensions )
Last edited by mmred on Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

mmred
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF71H

Post by mmred » Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:51 pm

f1316 wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:47 pm
Are my eyes tricking me or something funny going on here:

https://image.ibb.co/iUMFHc/38_E4_C47_B ... E2_A99.jpg

Like a second element of floor coming down?
that s just white track line

paddyf1
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF71H

Post by paddyf1 » Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:10 pm

mmred wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:51 pm
f1316 wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:47 pm
Are my eyes tricking me or something funny going on here:

https://image.ibb.co/iUMFHc/38_E4_C47_B ... E2_A99.jpg

Like a second element of floor coming down?
that s just white track line
It does show the very high rake angle.

Fede90
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF71H

Post by Fede90 » Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:11 pm

Image

In 2017 rules declared illegal that part of the floor, or i remember wrong?