Mercedes AMG F1 W09 EQ Power+

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mkay
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W09 EQ Power+

Post by mkay » Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:06 am

Sierra117 wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:46 pm
I'm not a trained engineer so I'm prolly gonna say weird stuff but it is a bit of an anti climax to see the car isn't as fast as was made to believe in the reports. I thought it would blitz past in Bahrain with the long straights and the tighter body of the car without needing to use higher engine modes.

Instead we have Ferrari who got pole and the win, having better mechanical grip and being gentler on tyres while incorporating Merc's long wheelbase design. Hopefully the Barcelona updates are good.

Btw what was that oil coming out from the back of the Ferraris? Is that rerouted to avoid the whole oil burning thing? Shouldn't a car spraying oil into the road making it slippery be illegal?
Mercedes was gentler on its tyres in Bahrain, which probably came as a surprise to them. Bottas went further than Vettel on SS, and Mercedes was faster than Ferrari on slower tyres in the second stint. Mercedes just got outsmarted on strategy in that race, and lack of aggression from Bottas.

Bahrain was a weak track for them last year and they are clearly stronger there this year than they were last year.

Vanja #66
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W09 EQ Power+

Post by Vanja #66 » Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:08 am

Sierra117 wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:46 pm
I'm not a trained engineer so I'm prolly gonna say weird stuff but it is a bit of an anti climax to see the car isn't as fast as was made to believe in the reports. I thought it would blitz past in Bahrain with the long straights and the tighter body of the car without needing to use higher engine modes.
A fast car is a relative term. Fast in general or relative to the opposition? In general, W09 is at least as fast as expected, if not faster (in my view). Relative to the opposition - it depends a lot on the opposition, doesn't it.

Try paying attention at speed traps in actual races than click-bait reports :) In Australia, Ferrari was faster in straight line than Merc, Hamilton expected them to be even stronger in Bahrain.

Even better, pay even more attention to the opposition, then you'll know even better what to expect. There was a lot of drag reduction on Ferrari, it has been spotted and noted here, on the forum, way before Australia's speed traps.

De Jokke
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W09 EQ Power+

Post by De Jokke » Wed Apr 11, 2018 1:42 pm

Viewing the upcoming 2 races:

china: front limited should suit mercs but Ferrari has less drag on straights + updates incoming, thus hard to judge...
I hope Lewis can work his magic there and the mercpitwall is awake this time...

baku: powerdominated by the long straight: good for mercs but as Ferrari closed the top speed difference, it's even. Who will fare best in the tiny section of the track, that's the question...

Any ideas??

+ no updates whatsoever until Spain?
Mercedes AMG + Hamilton => dreamteam!

giantfan10
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W09 EQ Power+

Post by giantfan10 » Wed Apr 11, 2018 1:44 pm

mkay wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:06 am
Sierra117 wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:46 pm
I'm not a trained engineer so I'm prolly gonna say weird stuff but it is a bit of an anti climax to see the car isn't as fast as was made to believe in the reports. I thought it would blitz past in Bahrain with the long straights and the tighter body of the car without needing to use higher engine modes.

Instead we have Ferrari who got pole and the win, having better mechanical grip and being gentler on tyres while incorporating Merc's long wheelbase design. Hopefully the Barcelona updates are good.

Btw what was that oil coming out from the back of the Ferraris? Is that rerouted to avoid the whole oil burning thing? Shouldn't a car spraying oil into the road making it slippery be illegal?
Mercedes was gentler on its tyres in Bahrain, which probably came as a surprise to them. Bottas went further than Vettel on SS, and Mercedes was faster than Ferrari on slower tyres in the second stint. Mercedes just got outsmarted on strategy in that race, and lack of aggression from Bottas.

Bahrain was a weak track for them last year and they are clearly stronger there this year than they were last year.
Your analysis is flawed when you ignore the obvious.
Bottas went longer on the SS not because his car was better on the SS but because Vettel stopped before him making the undercut useless..at that point.
Bottas' only option was to follow vettel into the pits on the following lap and resign himself to finishing second or gamble on the Medium thinking Vettel had to pit again..Mercedes chose to go with the medium.
With Bottas on the medium and Vettel on the soft how do you cone to the conclusion that Mercedes was better on tires? What we saw from the moment Ferrari decided to one stop was Bottas going into cruise control to save his tires for a late attack and Vettel doing the same waiting to defend that pending attack...not a good scenario to decide who is better on tires with dissimilar compounds....thats my take... what say you?

holeindalip
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W09 EQ Power+

Post by holeindalip » Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:39 pm

Allison has already said they do better than everybody on tire wear so far this year, sorry don't have a source


Edit source....


https://www.pitpass.com/61447/Mercedes- ... ts-Allison

Big Mangalhit
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W09 EQ Power+

Post by Big Mangalhit » Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:04 pm

holeindalip wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:39 pm
Allison has already said they do better than everybody on tire wear so far this year, sorry don't have a source


Edit source....


https://www.pitpass.com/61447/Mercedes- ... ts-Allison
False...
"The tyre wear of our car this year has been very good and in general better than the field," he said. "Whether specifically we could have made the soft tyres last the number of laps that Sebastian did we would only know by trying. My guess is we would because our car is looking after its tyres very well in the races this year.
In general better than the field is not equal to better than everybody else. I doubt he knows for sure who is better on tyre deg. Heck I doubt anybody in the world knows, it's such a complex issue that depends on tyre compound, track, temperature, setup etc...

But he doesn't even claim to be sure that they could do as many laps as Ferrari on the softs. Just that he thinks they could

LM10
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W09 EQ Power+

Post by LM10 » Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:07 pm

holeindalip wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:39 pm
Allison has already said they do better than everybody on tire wear so far this year, sorry don't have a source


Edit source....


https://www.pitpass.com/61447/Mercedes- ... ts-Allison
Why will Pirelli bring tyres with reduced tread to Barcelona, Silverstone and Paul Ricard on a request from Mercedes if their tyre wear is better than the rest of the field?

FLuidd
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W09 EQ Power+

Post by FLuidd » Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:19 pm

holeindalip wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:39 pm
Allison has already said they do better than everybody on tire wear so far this year, sorry don't have a source


Edit source....


https://www.pitpass.com/61447/Mercedes- ... ts-Allison
"The tyre wear of our car this year has been very good and in general better than the field,"



Regarding tyre wear it is no secret that Mercedes is not comfortable on the Yellow Soft tyre,

holeindalip
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W09 EQ Power+

Post by holeindalip » Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:23 pm

So the others will burn them off while they'll still have life left????

SparkyAMG
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W09 EQ Power+

Post by SparkyAMG » Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:55 pm

The tyre wear referred to by James Allison and thermal degradation are two very different things.

The former is the amount of rubber being used up during a stint (less wear = better), and thermal degradation is when the tyre gets too hot and moves outside of its operating window. This causes a loss of grip and can in extreme cases cause blistering. In Bahrain, Vettel had worn his tyres out towards the end of the race, whereas Bottas complained that he kept overheating his tyres and couldn't push as hard as he liked.

The W09 (according to JA) doesn't wear its tyres very quickly, but does apparently suffer from thermal degradation.

The move from Pirelli to bring shallower tread depths to a number of GPs this year is meant to improve thermal degradation on tracks where the tyre experiences extreme load.

Sierra117
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W09 EQ Power+

Post by Sierra117 » Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:42 pm

Vanja #66 wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:08 am
Sierra117 wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:46 pm
I'm not a trained engineer so I'm prolly gonna say weird stuff but it is a bit of an anti climax to see the car isn't as fast as was made to believe in the reports. I thought it would blitz past in Bahrain with the long straights and the tighter body of the car without needing to use higher engine modes.
A fast car is a relative term. Fast in general or relative to the opposition? In general, W09 is at least as fast as expected, if not faster (in my view). Relative to the opposition - it depends a lot on the opposition, doesn't it.

Try paying attention at speed traps in actual races than click-bait reports :) In Australia, Ferrari was faster in straight line than Merc, Hamilton expected them to be even stronger in Bahrain.

Even better, pay even more attention to the opposition, then you'll know even better what to expect. There was a lot of drag reduction on Ferrari, it has been spotted and noted here, on the forum, way before Australia's speed traps.
Don't worry i never read click bait reports lol. I just made a general observation. For instance, as we all noted Ferrari was much faster on the straights due to less wing. Ok no issue really, but what i see consistently since last year is traction issues - the merc is almost always sliding around. Like the onboard of Bottas' last couple of laps of the Bahrain gp when he's pushing - sliding around. Or any of the qualys on fresh tyres ftom Ham - sliding around. It's the most mentioned thing even in commentary when it comes to Merc since it's right there blatantly obvious.

On tge flip side, the Ferrari is way more planted, hardly ever seen fighting the driver. This is how W07 was, smooth and easy to drive. So in a crude manner I'm saying that just by observation one can see how much Faster the Ferraris are since they are easier to drive and proven by them winning the races and getting consistently better times in FPs and Qualy sessions.

Sorry I would be a lot more elegant in writing but Im half asleep and using a smartphone and that's never gonna work out well heh.

mantikos
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W09 EQ Power+

Post by mantikos » Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:26 pm

LM10 wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:07 pm
holeindalip wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:39 pm
Allison has already said they do better than everybody on tire wear so far this year, sorry don't have a source


Edit source....


https://www.pitpass.com/61447/Mercedes- ... ts-Allison
Why will Pirelli bring tyres with reduced tread to Barcelona, Silverstone and Paul Ricard on a request from Mercedes if their tyre wear is better than the rest of the field?
Correction, it is not at Merc's request - please read the actual article.

Vanja #66
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W09 EQ Power+

Post by Vanja #66 » Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:56 pm

Sierra117 wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:42 pm
For instance, as we all noted Ferrari was much faster on the straights due to less wing.
Ferrari actually had more wing in Australia. Mercedes rear wing flap also has smaller frontal surface (due to middle and side V cuts), so it's safe to assume Merc rear wing is less draggy than Ferrari.

As for cars seeming (un)stable, to me Merc seemed fabulous in Australia and not bad at all in Bahrain; Ferrari seemed a lot better in Bahrain for instance, but not yet the same as 2017 car.

Morteza
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W09 EQ Power+

Post by Morteza » Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:16 am

China - Thursday

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Via @AlbertFabrega

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Via AMuS

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"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."~William Shakespeare

dren
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W09 EQ Power+

Post by dren » Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:44 am

Still running the cooling exit by the driver. The rear wing is the flat version.
Honda!