2018 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, April 13-15

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ferkan
ferkan
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Joined: 06 Apr 2015, 20:50

Re: 2018 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, April 13-15

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Kimi wouldnt make an overtake in this formula if his life depended on it. I think, given his sensitivity to handling, amount of dirty air that makes you lose DF behind the car makes him not very well suited for overtakes. He seems to suffer more then anyone...

ferkan
ferkan
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Joined: 06 Apr 2015, 20:50

Re: 2018 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, April 13-15

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Mansell89 wrote:
15 Apr 2018, 10:09
Ferrari’s treatment of Kimi today was probably more disappointing to me than all of the other things today. What an absolutely awful way to treat their driver, 3 races in after he’s driven pretty beautifully every weekend so far.
Agree. But then again Vettel was treated pretty amateurish himself. Basically after everyone pitted he was left on track for 2 more.laps. While HE was in lead. Ferrari made biggest strat blunder of the year on Seb today...

f1316
f1316
78
Joined: 22 Feb 2012, 18:36

Re: 2018 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, April 13-15

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CreepierEnd wrote:
15 Apr 2018, 11:32
Poleman wrote:
15 Apr 2018, 10:15
JPBD1990 wrote:
15 Apr 2018, 10:10


Ferrari and Mercedes were neck and neck on pace. Redbull lucked into the win with the timing of the safety car. Not sure what you’re talking about...
We are saying the same thing, what i was trying to point is that Ferrari didnt have a huge advantage in pace (if any advantage at all) over Mercedes after yesterday's qualy speculation.Cheers :)
Ferrari seems to have an advantage in race pace. Vettel was able to build a gap and control the race. Bottas in the other hand, could not shake Vettel away until the saftey car came out. Ferrari should of pitted Vettel sooner.
Well personally I didn’t expect Ferrari to have 0.5s a lap every lap in the race over Mercedes, but as you say - “Vettel was able to build a gap and control the race. Bottas in the other hand, could not shake Vettel” - so they did seem to have the quicker car.

At least in Vettel’s hands. A lot of people like to vilify Ferrari for favouring Seb, but it’s completely logical when experience shows you he consistently performs better during races. In the first stint today Kimi dropped a long way behind Max, who was himself dropped by Vettel and Bottas, with Lewis pressuring from behind; there was no ‘dirty air’ for Kimi to deal with (and Seb showed it was quite possible to stay close anyway) and yet he was still well off his teammate’s pace. Anyone who’s watched Kimi throughout both his tenures at Ferrari will know he just doesn’t show the consistency that a Michael/Fernando/Seb does during races, which is why they always double down on the teammate (even including Massa who was notoriously more a one-lap/race-from-the-front specialist than a real race-long battler).

But to return to my initial point, in Vettel’s hands the Ferrari still looked the slightly stronger package than the Mercedes in the race. Game on for Baku and the rest of the season now - particularly with Mercedes somehow still being on top in the constructors despite not winning a race yet.
Last edited by f1316 on 15 Apr 2018, 12:02, edited 1 time in total.

henra
henra
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Joined: 11 Mar 2012, 19:34

Re: 2018 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, April 13-15

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ferkan wrote:
15 Apr 2018, 11:46
Basically after everyone pitted he was left on track for 2 more.laps. While HE was in lead. Ferrari made biggest strat blunder of the year on Seb today...
Yup. When asked in the post race interview what annoyed him most, their strategy or Max's attack he said that it was their mistake with the pit stop strategy.

jz11
jz11
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Joined: 14 Sep 2010, 21:32

Re: 2018 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, April 13-15

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ferkan wrote:
15 Apr 2018, 11:46
Mansell89 wrote:
15 Apr 2018, 10:09
Ferrari’s treatment of Kimi today was probably more disappointing to me than all of the other things today. What an absolutely awful way to treat their driver, 3 races in after he’s driven pretty beautifully every weekend so far.
Agree. But then again Vettel was treated pretty amateurish himself. Basically after everyone pitted he was left on track for 2 more.laps. While HE was in lead. Ferrari made biggest strat blunder of the year on Seb today...
biggest of the year so far...

:D

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Bisonas
2
Joined: 01 Feb 2015, 11:56

Re: 2018 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, April 13-15

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RB didn't try anything extreme.
Yes they can take more strategic risks, because they have a huge gap behind them, but today it was not the case of such a risk.
They simply had a faster reaction to what was clear to all, one lap l8r, that it was the right call.
Ferrari with Vettel and Mercedes with both cars they instantly knew they where in trouble after RB stopped.
It was not a 50/50 scenario that may work and may not. It was clear to all parties almost instantly that RB would had the upper hand after the SC.
First of all the TRs collided on lap 30, they all saw the incident, they all saw the debris. All Cars actually passed from the debris once before SC. They had time to calculate strategies since the SC didn't came out instantly. SC call was made almost one lap l8r on lap 31. The timing of the SC was marginal for BOT and VET. Watching the GPS traces on f1-app when the track went yellow for SC they where just passing the pit entry. I don't know for sure if they had just passed or they where about to pass the pit entry. For those 2 it was marginal. So VER was pulled in instantly he was for sure a few meters before the entry when track went SC yellow and RIC followed.
Mercedes has no excuse for Hamilton. Even if BOT had marginally missed the entry, HAM certainly didn't . They should have pulled him in. Mercedes caught napping for sure.

If track went SC yellow just after BOT and VET pass the entry, it was bad lack for them. Ferrari was not at fault, VET lost the advantage of going in first, and RAI had just done his pit stop so no point for pitting again.
If track went SC yellow before they past the entry , then it was a blunder for Ferrari also because they should have anticipated it and react immediately.
But it was a blunder for Mercedes for sure, because even if BOT had past, they should have brought HAM in.

They had one lap to figure out that in the event of a SC call, they should come in for tyres. Regardless of what all others will do. because even if no one else came for tyres, who ever had the new tyres, would have been able to re pass them.

J.A.W.
J.A.W.
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Joined: 01 Sep 2014, 05:10
Location: Altair IV.

Re: 2018 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, April 13-15

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Mandrake wrote:
15 Apr 2018, 10:15
Verstappen very humble in the post race interview. Good to see
Well, like his namesake the Austin Maxi, he sure does have a fair bit - to be humble about..
"Well, we knocked the bastard off!"

Ed Hilary on being 1st to top Mt Everest,
(& 1st to do a surface traverse across Antarctica,
in good Kiwi style - riding a Massey Ferguson farm
tractor - with a few extemporised mod's to hack the task).

matt_b
matt_b
2
Joined: 11 Jul 2012, 12:03

Re: 2018 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, April 13-15

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henra wrote:
15 Apr 2018, 12:00
ferkan wrote:
15 Apr 2018, 11:46
Basically after everyone pitted he was left on track for 2 more.laps. While HE was in lead. Ferrari made biggest strat blunder of the year on Seb today...
Yup. When asked in the post race interview what annoyed him most, their strategy or Max's attack he said that it was their mistake with the pit stop strategy.
Seb had a 3.2 second lead and boxed straight after Bottas, they didn't leave him out for 2 more laps. Ferrari thought the gap would be enough to react but Seb didn't have the tyres left and Bottas did a phenomenal outlap. I think a lack of communication on tyre life around that point let them down probably trying to keep it quiet from mercedes but mercedes just went for it.

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Vettel165
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Joined: 06 Apr 2018, 20:46
Location: Maribor/Slovenia

Re: 2018 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, April 13-15

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Bisonas wrote:
15 Apr 2018, 12:09
RB didn't try anything extreme.
Yes they can take more strategic risks, because they have a huge gap behind them, but today it was not the case of such a risk.
They simply had a faster reaction to what was clear to all, one lap l8r, that it was the right call.
Ferrari with Vettel and Mercedes with both cars they instantly knew they where in trouble after RB stopped.
It was not a 50/50 scenario that may work and may not. It was clear to all parties almost instantly that RB would had the upper hand after the SC.
First of all the TRs collided on lap 30, they all saw the incident, they all saw the debris. All Cars actually passed from the debris once before SC. They had time to calculate strategies since the SC didn't came out instantly. SC call was made almost one lap l8r on lap 31. The timing of the SC was marginal for BOT and VET. Watching the GPS traces on f1-app when the track went yellow for SC they where just passing the pit entry. I don't know for sure if they had just passed or they where about to pass the pit entry. For those 2 it was marginal. So VER was pulled in instantly he was for sure a few meters before the entry when track went SC yellow and RIC followed.
Mercedes has no excuse for Hamilton. Even if BOT had marginally missed the entry, HAM certainly didn't . They should have pulled him in. Mercedes caught napping for sure.

If track went SC yellow just after BOT and VET pass the entry, it was bad lack for them. Ferrari was not at fault, VET lost the advantage of going in first, and RAI had just done his pit stop so no point for pitting again.
If track went SC yellow before they past the entry , then it was a blunder for Ferrari also because they should have anticipated it and react immediately.
But it was a blunder for Mercedes for sure, because even if BOT had past, they should have brought HAM in.

They had one lap to figure out that in the event of a SC call, they should come in for tyres. Regardless of what all others will do. because even if no one else came for tyres, who ever had the new tyres, would have been able to re pass them.
Amazing post, just wow. You couldnt say any better.

Seb is still leading the WDC by 9 points, we (Ferrari) had a lot of luck in Australia. If there was no safety car there Seb would had now 44 points with Hamilton 52. So we are now equal if we are comparing luck, today it was a bad day in the office for Ferrari, I was very sad after the race, it really hurts, but I have to move on, the race is done, next race we will try again. Seb has 54 points with Hamilton 45. If someone told me we would be leading the WDC after 3 races, i wouldnt believe him. The next race is a whole new start, beginning, Ferrari is very strong on qualy, race pace, we were faster as Mercedes today. RBR had a lot of luck, but Ricciardo was fantastic. I see Hamilton as the main challenge for WDC with Seb and his pace was lacking today. Bring on Baku. Please Ferrari be better with strategy next time for both drivers, I really want to see a Ferrari driver finally taking the title, but its a long year ahead, please god that is my only wish this year.

Forza Ferrari, Vettel, Kimi

PS: I will never stop believing.

bonjon1979
bonjon1979
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Joined: 11 Feb 2009, 17:16

Re: 2018 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, April 13-15

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Poleman wrote:
15 Apr 2018, 10:51
Harvester wrote:
15 Apr 2018, 10:48
It's not just that Red Bull are smarter it is also that they are behind Ferrari and Mercedes and they can risk a lot kmore because there is not much they can lose. Even if they make horrible strategy mistakes they would still be 5th and 6th
It was a total no brainer for them. Fresh tyres no chance of them losing a place

Yeah that also makes sense,good point.

LM10
LM10
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Joined: 07 Mar 2018, 00:07

Re: 2018 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, April 13-15

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CreepierEnd wrote:
15 Apr 2018, 11:32

Ferrari seems to have an advantage in race pace. Vettel was able to build a gap and control the race. Bottas in the other hand, could not shake Vettel away until the saftey car came out. Ferrari should of pitted Vettel sooner.
If we keep in mind that Mercedes explained their massive lack of pace in qualifying by having done a setup for warmer race conditions then their pace in race was not so spectacular either.

Sevach
Sevach
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Joined: 07 Jun 2012, 17:00

Re: 2018 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, April 13-15

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ferkan wrote:
15 Apr 2018, 11:46

Agree. But then again Vettel was treated pretty amateurish himself. Basically after everyone pitted he was left on track for 2 more.laps. While HE was in lead. Ferrari made biggest strat blunder of the year on Seb today...
Ferrari and Vettel haven't been good at managing leads and pit windows, on both races Bottas started to get closer right before the cars start to pit, if Ferrari has a more powerful racing mode they should be on that for those laps.

Also no need to wait, everybody pitted, Bottas couldn't have waited much longer otherwise he would've come out behind Verstappen and Hamilton.

Fulcrum
Fulcrum
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Joined: 25 Aug 2014, 18:05

Re: 2018 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, April 13-15

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Ferrari strategists, particularly with Raikkonen, seemed to be completely brain dead.

First, leaving him out until lap 28, for an outside chance of providing Vettel with an overtaking opportunity. Then not taking advantage of what was an absolutely FREE pit stop onto brand new Soft tyres. The conspiracy theorist in me suggests they didn't pit him because this would have provided Raikkonen with an opportunity to pass Vettel - an undesirable outcome.

Vettel's strategist also deserves a dunce cap. Getting jumped when you have a 3-4 second advantage is just dumb.

aral
aral
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Joined: 03 Apr 2010, 22:49

Re: 2018 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, April 13-15

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I guess that you are overlooking the fact that until the SC came out, Vettel was lining up to pass Bottas, on newer tyres.
So even if Ferrari were tardy in calling Vettel in, there was a reason for it, and frankly it was actually working.

zac510
zac510
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Joined: 24 Jan 2006, 12:58

Re: 2018 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, April 13-15

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If only those Ferrari strategists had attended the Centre for Advanced Hindsight, they wouldn't make this mistake!