University choices for Motorsport Engineering.

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tok-tokkie
tok-tokkie
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Location: Cape Town

Re: University choices for Motorsport Engineering.

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I have read some posts here with great interest.
The vital importance of having a track record of having been involved in racing car development and construction has been stressed.
It makes me think of Rory Byrne. He studied B.Sc pure Chemistry. He was very involved in car racing, firstly as a competitor but then getting more involved in the technical aspects - but that was not his formal training. After graduating he worked as a chemist but together with some friends had a speed shop. He then designed and built a Formula Ford. That was all in South Africa. To pursue this interest he moved to England, bought a tired Formula Ford car and set about improving it and competing. That was his lucky break because he was noticed and given the job of designing and developing Formula Ford cars. From there he progressed.
It was not his university degree that got him the job at Benneton or Ferrari - because he had no Engineering degree. It was his proven passion, common sense and technical ability.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rory_Byrne

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Vyssion
305
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 1:40 pm

Re: University choices for Motorsport Engineering.

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tok-tokkie wrote:I have read some posts here with great interest.
The vital importance of having a track record of having been involved in racing car development and construction has been stressed.
It makes me think of Rory Byrne. He studied B.Sc pure Chemistry. He was very involved in car racing, firstly as a competitor but then getting more involved in the technical aspects - but that was not his formal training. After graduating he worked as a chemist but together with some friends had a speed shop. He then designed and built a Formula Ford. That was all in South Africa. To pursue this interest he moved to England, bought a tired Formula Ford car and set about improving it and competing. That was his lucky break because he was noticed and given the job of designing and developing Formula Ford cars. From there he progressed.
It was not his university degree that got him the job at Benneton or Ferrari - because he had no Engineering degree. It was his proven passion, common sense and technical ability.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rory_Byrne
Exactly what I've said :D :D :D
Chemistry is quite a jump though!! :wtf:
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charnwooduk
charnwooduk
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Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2011 12:17 am

Re: University choices for Motorsport Engineering.

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Your degree will not get you the job.

For sure it will give you one of the requirements to be considered for one of the graduate programs, but there are literally hundreds if not thousands of students each year who will have the same qualifications.

Actually chemistry, materials science or computer studies can potentially get you further towards an F1 career than mechanical/motorsports focused degrees would, simply because there is less competition in those fields. (Understanding composites/polymers or IT/Technology/communications being just as important as the more traditional engineering roles now-days)

What you need to work out is what makes you stand out from the crowd. That does not necessarily have to be academic.

As an example, there has been more than one occasion where I could have taken a job in the motorsports industry. I don't have a degree , A_Levels or any motor sports experience. But my hobby is flying model aircraft. I designed and manufactured in my garage fully composite 100% carbon fibre / polymer models. It took me about 6 years of my spare time, teaching myself all the theory, learning how to use "freeware" tools such as x-foil all the CAD work, build my own CNC mill, constructed all the molds myself, and took a couple of years to perfect the manufacturing process and ended up with a product that I sold all over the world and flown by the top pilots in World Championships. I did a few presentations to modeling clubs, and by chance had some employees of F1 teams in the audience that got me noticed.. I did not take the interest any further as family commitments mean I prefer to see more of my family and I can earn more in my regular day job (I'm am a business intelligence consultant - a fancy title for a database guru, self taught again)

I will take another example. My next door neighbours kid is 17 . He had locked himself in his bedroom for most of his childhood playing world-of-warcraft (or similar). He entered a coding competition run by an F1 team and got offered an apprenticeship there a year ago. He will never need to go to University now as this apprenticeship is worth a hell of a lot more than a degree.

What I am trying to say is yes, do your degree... but make damn sure that in that time you do the something else that will make you stand out.

And also remember that just about everyone who has taught you at School, College and Uni will have very little experience of real world employment. They will have never experienced any "regular" job where academic achievement is not the be-all and end-all. I've worked for 20 years in technology related industries and I would be surprised if any more than half of my colleagues have had degrees. When I look at a CV, I rarely even bother with the academic achievements... I look at their experience, and try to get a grip of how inquisitive minded they are and how they have managed to apply that to further their careers. If I look at a graduate CV, I look primarily at what they have accomplished outside their curriculum, to get a gauge as to if they would be suitable.

Caito
Caito
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Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2009 4:30 am
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Re: University choices for Motorsport Engineering.

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I'd support getting an Engineer degree first.

First I think you shouldn't choose what to study, but what to work for. Study is 4/5 years, work is for life.

As said, you'll change your mind several times throughout the years, and having a broader knowledge will provide you with the ability to shift and do whatever you like best. Until you try a job, you will not know if you like it.

If you DO like it, you have a lifetime to specialize.
Come back 747, we miss you!!

Derek212
Derek212
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Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:24 am

Re: University choices for Motorsport Engineering.

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Hi guys,
Can someone please help me out in selecting a university for a Motorsports Master's degree. i have been offered from oxford Brookes and brunel universities and i cant seem to choose between them two. Don't ask me about why i chose Motorsport please. i just need to know which one of these two universities is the best. i have researched about the course contents and accreditation of these two and brunel also has the "Automotive and Motorsport' part in it's title. it also has a group project where you get to build a formula student car with a group to participate in the formula student championship. I would like to know how their facilities are, the quality of the course, their employment opportunities, the expenses (if anyone have done the course there), and university connections with the industry.

thank you

johnny comelately
johnny comelately
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Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2015 11:55 pm
Location: Australia

Re: University choices for Motorsport Engineering.

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charnwooduk wrote:
Tue Apr 12, 2016 4:46 pm
Your degree will not get you the job.

For sure it will give you one of the requirements to be considered for one of the graduate programs, but there are literally hundreds if not thousands of students each year who will have the same qualifications.

Actually chemistry, materials science or computer studies can potentially get you further towards an F1 career than mechanical/motorsports focused degrees would, simply because there is less competition in those fields. (Understanding composites/polymers or IT/Technology/communications being just as important as the more traditional engineering roles now-days)

What you need to work out is what makes you stand out from the crowd. That does not necessarily have to be academic.

As an example, there has been more than one occasion where I could have taken a job in the motorsports industry. I don't have a degree , A_Levels or any motor sports experience. But my hobby is flying model aircraft. I designed and manufactured in my garage fully composite 100% carbon fibre / polymer models. It took me about 6 years of my spare time, teaching myself all the theory, learning how to use "freeware" tools such as x-foil all the CAD work, build my own CNC mill, constructed all the molds myself, and took a couple of years to perfect the manufacturing process and ended up with a product that I sold all over the world and flown by the top pilots in World Championships. I did a few presentations to modeling clubs, and by chance had some employees of F1 teams in the audience that got me noticed.. I did not take the interest any further as family commitments mean I prefer to see more of my family and I can earn more in my regular day job (I'm am a business intelligence consultant - a fancy title for a database guru, self taught again)

I will take another example. My next door neighbours kid is 17 . He had locked himself in his bedroom for most of his childhood playing world-of-warcraft (or similar). He entered a coding competition run by an F1 team and got offered an apprenticeship there a year ago. He will never need to go to University now as this apprenticeship is worth a hell of a lot more than a degree.

What I am trying to say is yes, do your degree... but make damn sure that in that time you do the something else that will make you stand out.

And also remember that just about everyone who has taught you at School, College and Uni will have very little experience of real world employment. They will have never experienced any "regular" job where academic achievement is not the be-all and end-all. I've worked for 20 years in technology related industries and I would be surprised if any more than half of my colleagues have had degrees. When I look at a CV, I rarely even bother with the academic achievements... I look at their experience, and try to get a grip of how inquisitive minded they are and how they have managed to apply that to further their careers. If I look at a graduate CV, I look primarily at what they have accomplished outside their curriculum, to get a gauge as to if they would be suitable.
Very well put.

Greg Locock
Greg Locock
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Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2012 11:48 pm

Re: University choices for Motorsport Engineering.

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Hi Derek, to be honest I've got three things to say. Those who went to OB will say OB is the best. Those who went to Brunel will say Brunel is the best. But as someone who occasionally interviews graduates, I would always capitalize punctuate and spell correctly in ANY communication likely to be seen by employers.

Your future employer won't really care which of those two you went to, it's more to do with what you did when you were there.

Derek212
Derek212
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Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:24 am

Re: University choices for Motorsport Engineering.

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Yes very true.
But well how I perform is up to me totally and I know the employer looks for my performance as well. But I need know about universities honestly. Their facilities and which one is worth it and the ranking and as I have seen on OB website. They have 3 accreditations whereas Brunel has just 1. So does that matter ?

johnny comelately
johnny comelately
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Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2015 11:55 pm
Location: Australia

Re: University choices for Motorsport Engineering.

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and then you can get a job at McLaren :wink:

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Mudflap
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Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:36 pm

Re: University choices for Motorsport Engineering.

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Derek212 wrote:
Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:37 am
Hi guys,
Can someone please help me out in selecting a university for a Motorsports Master's degree. i have been offered from oxford Brookes and brunel universities and i cant seem to choose between them two. Don't ask me about why i chose Motorsport please. i just need to know which one of these two universities is the best. i have researched about the course contents and accreditation of these two and brunel also has the "Automotive and Motorsport' part in it's title. it also has a group project where you get to build a formula student car with a group to participate in the formula student championship. I would like to know how their facilities are, the quality of the course, their employment opportunities, the expenses (if anyone have done the course there), and university connections with the industry.

thank you
If you only have the two to choose from, go for Brookes.
It has a good (undeserved in my opinion) reputation in the UK motorsport industry.

As it has been said before it does not guarantee you a job in motorsport, as a matter of fact I have interviewed quite a few shockingly bad Brookes alumni.
I believe many exceptional students choose it purely based on its reputation and that tends to offset the mediocre teaching.

I can't recommend Cranfield uni highly enough though - it has the best Motorsport post-grad course hands down and all graduates have been consistently good. If you already have a BEng degree, that's where you want to be applying.
How much TQ does it make though?

Derek212
Derek212
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Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:24 am

Re: University choices for Motorsport Engineering.

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Well cranfield has no vacancies I already applied for this summer semester but they told that they can put me to the 2019 summer semester which is one more year backwards in my career so I prefer getting the MSc and going for a job in 2019. Until I earn enough to study for my PhD

Derek212
Derek212
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Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:24 am

Re: University choices for Motorsport Engineering.

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Also, isn’t Brunel good because I have a feeling of going to Brunel since it does both motorsport and automotive industry sector. But it is expensive and I was wondering whether it was worth it.

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Mudflap
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Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:36 pm

Re: University choices for Motorsport Engineering.

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Honestly I wouldn't call either Brookes or Brunel good. You could try securing a placement year (a bit late now i'm afraid) and start at Cranfield in 2019.

Relevant work experience gained during a placement is more valuable than a MSc - certainly beats one from the 2 universities you have to choose from.

If you have a good BEng degree you can go for a sponsored PhD and skip MSc.
How much TQ does it make though?

AGAM
AGAM
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Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:54 pm

Re: University choices for Motorsport Engineering.

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Hi guys new here, so bear with me.

I am a recent graduate mechanical engineer from India and i was looking to get into oxford brookes Msc Motorsports Engineering

Can you guys help me decide whether i should wait a year and get into cranfield instead?
Also which university has better industrial expertise and facilities?
I want to get into a program which help me get into jobs in motorsports right after i complete the course.

Thanks 😊