2018 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 11-13

[ab_f1]

Given the change of tyres was planned since early April, is there any news item where Ferrari opposed it before Spanish GP Race weekend?

Also I didn't see it being discussed but even Merc (at least Bottas) had to save fuel. Given the safety car in very beginning Merc may have under fuelled to get this Win.

[TAG]

Given the change of tyres was planned since early April, is there any news item where Ferrari opposed it before Spanish GP Race weekend?

Also I didn't see it being discussed but even Merc (at least Bottas) had to save fuel. Given the safety car in very beginning Merc may have under fuelled to get this Win.

I think they underfueld expecting a SC, in Barcelona, that's not too much of a gamble. Bottas pushed a hell of a lot trying to get back Vettel, that's likely why he was in conservation mode at the end.

[Wynters]

Also, a small side note, the way Kimi made room (instantly) after his turbo went poof is just class.

I think Kimi is cursed either way, sadly. I can't wrap my head around that just about every fault involves his car.

QFT.

[Wynters]

I am pretty sure that overtake was not on pit exit, but a lap or two later. Upon pit exit, Vettel nudged Hamilton slightly off circuit (Vettel came out pretty much side-by-side, perhaps a bit ahead if I recall correctly) and then he fell behind, but then he could make the move stick a lap later using DRS I think.

This is all correct.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KS2BUVrDNTI

Thank you for the link. I'd forgotten what a good overtake Vettel on Bottas was.

[foxmulder_ms]

The first one I have watched this season, wish I hadn't bothered to be honest. The FIA really need to get a set of rules together that allows racing, close racing at that. It is just a procession at best, tyres/aero/fuel/engines need sorting out in my opinion to enable drivers to race, race hard from the start, after all that is what a motor race is, is it not??

Comments like this make me believe some of the people around have very little F1 background. how long have you been watching F1 dude. There have been always dominant teams. On contrary to what you believe, this season is very much fun. Three teams can win races on merit, remaining 4 mid teams are very close to each other. What else do you expect yo ??? Sprinklers on the circuit at random times?? Canons firing on the leaders.??

[Wynters]

Canons firing on the leaders.??

Christian Horner pointed out that whilst you aren't allowed to attach cannons to the car normally, there's nothing in the rules about not being allowed to attach them to the mirrors as 'stabilising devices'

[LM10]

Can you tell who predicted before Friday that the tyres will suit Mercedes? One official article. Just one. Not the tom, dick and harrys after Saturday qualifying.

Isn't is enough to read that in three races there will be tyres used that allegedly were lobbied by Merc with a thinner tread and thus beavior most likely to benifit Mercedes. AMUS article from 6th April

So, reported tyres were used. And what was the outcome?

You still did not provide a proof of, who predicted that Mercedes would win on Friday. Just your thoughts? How would anyone know in April, when the decision was made to change the construction, was designed to help Mercedes? When Pirelli decided to change, Bahrain, China and Baku didn't even happen! No one knew at that time that Mercedes was going to struggle. All of this in hindsight, is beautiful co-incidence.

It's like Nostradamus prophesies. No one knows what they are, until they happen and then attribute it to Nostradamus.

Predict a Mercedes win? What kind of proof do you expect? Villeneuve told after the race that it was a known thing in paddock the new tyres would suit Mercedes.

In addition, this is what it says in the AMuS article from 6. April:

"After extreme blistering in Barcelona, Mercedes has asked Pirelli for help. The tire manufacturer reacts in 3 races with a thinner tread. Not exactly to the delight of the competition."

A few reactions right after the decision:

McLaren: "We don't have any problems with blistering."
Ricciardo: "Our car treats the tyres more gentle than Mercedes."
A Team principal: "Why should we change the tyres if Mercedes are the ones having problems? They should find out themselves how to manage."

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... ufflaeche/

[GPR-A duplicate2]

What are you on about? Mercedes resisted HARD on token change thing. They offered 10% more tokens, but no more time during winter to do development, and this was firmly rejected by Ferrari and Renault. Only reason why it was dropped was because Ferrari argued that rules had loophole and that in season development was actually permitted. Merc was very angry at that time, I remember that clearly. So this "Mercedes always fought for entire field" bs is 100% wrong.

Can you post an official report about what you are talking, about the 10% token thing? Because I could not find any. Either you post it, or I have to consider your post as, like you said, BS. Also try and see if there is any report about Mercedes resisting the Token loophole.

And the fact that you did not contend other points means you agree.

Oh, here is something interesting on the same lines. I know for sure this would meet with denial.

http://autoweek.com/article/formula-one ... ormula-one

Sport Bild suggests Mercedes may even have slowed its own development program over the winter, and recommended that Ferrari hire Mercedes' hybrid specialist Wolf Zimmermann.

"We expected an improvement," said Sauber engineer Giampaolo Dall'Ara, referring to Ferrari's 2015 engine, "but such great progress in such a short space of time is difficult to explain."

On the same breath, when was the last time Ferrari accommodated competition to come close to them? Now that was cunning.

[dans79]

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... ufflaeche/

Some nice cherry picked, no context given quotes in that article. I don't trust Michael Schmidt any further than i could throw him.

[GPR-A duplicate2]

Predict a Mercedes win? What kind of proof do you expect? Villeneuve told after the race that it was a known thing in paddock the new tyres would suit Mercedes.

In addition, this is what it says in the AMuS article from 6. April:

"After extreme blistering in Barcelona, Mercedes has asked Pirelli for help. The tire manufacturer reacts in 3 races with a thinner tread. Not exactly to the delight of the competition."

A few reactions right after the decision:

McLaren: "We don't have any problems with blistering."
Ricciardo: "Our car treats the tyres more gentle than Mercedes."
A Team principal: "Why should we change the tyres if Mercedes are the ones having problems? They should find out themselves how to manage."

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... ufflaeche/

Interesting. The article doesn't talk about Ferrari having similar blistering problems in winter testing. It talks about RB though, who had a great outing!

And about Villeneuve, saying that "known thing in paddock" doesn't mean anything. The design of the change in tread, was finalized after winter testing and what no one is telling me while arguing is that, how did Pirelli managed to created tyres that would suit Mercedes specifically, purely based on Winter Testing data, where Ferrari was also facing the same blistering problems?

[Andres125sx]

The first one I have watched this season, wish I hadn't bothered to be honest. The FIA really need to get a set of rules together that allows racing, close racing at that. It is just a procession at best, tyres/aero/fuel/engines need sorting out in my opinion to enable drivers to race, race hard from the start, after all that is what a motor race is, is it not??

Wait a minute..... you don´t watch F1 and the only race you bothered to watch was the spanish GP?

From a spanish fan, what a poor choice!

This track is a great track from the technical point of view, but boring as hell for the viewer who look after some on-track action. It has always been and it will always be like this

Watch past chinesse GP, it´s worth it

[Phil]

Predict a Mercedes win? What kind of proof do you expect? Villeneuve told after the race that it was a known thing in paddock the new tyres would suit Mercedes.

In addition, this is what it says in the AMuS article from 6. April:

"After extreme blistering in Barcelona, Mercedes has asked Pirelli for help. The tire manufacturer reacts in 3 races with a thinner tread. Not exactly to the delight of the competition."

A few reactions right after the decision:

McLaren: "We don't have any problems with blistering."
Ricciardo: "Our car treats the tyres more gentle than Mercedes."
A Team principal: "Why should we change the tyres if Mercedes are the ones having problems? They should find out themselves how to manage."

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... ufflaeche/

Oh boy, you don't speak a word of German do you? And yet, here you are quoting AMuS. Or did you simply not get past the headline?

Let me help you out (from the article you selectively quoted from, but the part you selectively left out):

Mercedes schlug Pirelli vor, auf den kritischen Rennstrecken die Gummischicht zu reduzieren. Eine dünnere Lauffläche bedeutet weniger Bewegung im Gummi und damit eine geringere Gefahr von Überhitzung.

Pirelli folgte der Bitte von Mercedes. „Das hätten wir auch von uns aus gemacht. So sind wir auch schon 2011 und 2012 in Monza und Spa verfahren“, wiegelt Isola Fairness-Bedenken ab. In Barcelona, Silverstone und Paul Ricard wird die Gummischicht auf den Reifen um 0,4 Millimeter reduziert. Das verringert das Gewicht eines Reifensatz immerhin um ein Kilogramm. Die Teams müssen das Geschenk mit Ballast auffüllen.

Translated:
While Mercedes did (apparently) suggest to reduce the thread of the tire, Pirelli [Mario Isola] did say they would have done that anyway. They already did that in 2011 and 2012 in Monza and Spa.

So at the end, lots of noise about something that has been done already in 2011 and 2012 and there were no issues back then.

I'd also add (again) that the change was due to safety concerns. Safety should be taken seriously, even if it only concerns a few cars. If you want to argue against that, we might as well talk conspiracy theories for 2013 when there was a huge construction change mid season or the constant camber and pressure requirements Pirelli keep changing up and down depending on track that can have just as much influence over who can get the tires to work and who not. It was a bigger topic last year and in 2015 (among others) (to the detriment of Mercedes), but some must have selective memories there too.

Pirelli row back from more extreme tyre pressure limits for Italian GP

https://www.racefans.net/2013/07/05/fia ... punctures/

There was even a topic on here not too long ago:
Influence of Pirelli tyre pressure on 2017 contenders

[Sieper]

I heard that last year the only on track overtake between Hamilton and Vettel (the P1 and P2 WDC contenders) was here in Spain (1 overtake) and even that was actually upon pit exit.

I have to say that I do feel that is a bit of a shame.

You heard wrong. There was at least one real overtake, Hamilton on Vettel for the lead in the US GP. Vettel had beaten him off the line and into turn 1 at the start.

Ok, personally I count “start melee” overtakes separate from later real one on one fights. But an overtake is an overtake.

[FrukostScones]

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... ufflaeche/

Some nice cherry picked, no context given quotes in that article. I don't trust Michael Schmidt any further than i could throw him.

That just shows how not knowing you are.
He talked in September/Oktober 2008 about Mosley beeing shocked about Honda downforce for 2009.
He probably made that up too, because there was no Honda in 2009.

[ferkan]

What are you on about? Mercedes resisted HARD on token change thing. They offered 10% more tokens, but no more time during winter to do development, and this was firmly rejected by Ferrari and Renault. Only reason why it was dropped was because Ferrari argued that rules had loophole and that in season development was actually permitted. Merc was very angry at that time, I remember that clearly. So this "Mercedes always fought for entire field" bs is 100% wrong.

Can you post an official report about what you are talking, about the 10% token thing? Because I could not find any. Either you post it, or I have to consider your post as, like you said, BS. Also try and see if there is any report about Mercedes resisting the Token loophole.

And the fact that you did not contend other points means you agree.

Oh, here is something interesting on the same lines. I know for sure this would meet with denial.

http://autoweek.com/article/formula-one ... ormula-one

Sport Bild suggests Mercedes may even have slowed its own development program over the winter, and recommended that Ferrari hire Mercedes' hybrid specialist Wolf Zimmermann.

"We expected an improvement," said Sauber engineer Giampaolo Dall'Ara, referring to Ferrari's 2015 engine, "but such great progress in such a short space of time is difficult to explain."

On the same breath, when was the last time Ferrari accommodated competition to come close to them? Now that was cunning.

Here...

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... -die-zeit/

So you are posting BILD rumors, and Im posting what actually happened at meeting with Merc saying "have 5 more tokens and April as deadline". Which was obviously far too short as Renault couldnt spend theirs duo to complexity of development till the end of year. In fact, if it wasnt for Ferrari finding a loophole in regs, nothing would have change that winter.

In any case, you started arguing about how Merc actually helps everyone, so it makes sense for them not to --- teams over with tire situation, but what Merc really would loves was 5 more tokens and 1 month more of development time. Fully knowing no way will they be able to spend it in time, but still appearing "fair".