2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

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M840TR
147
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:04 pm

Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by M840TR » Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:19 pm

towncaptain wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:26 pm
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... celona.jpg
It has been mentioned before, I believe the intake above the helmet is one of the problem. Look how tiny it is compared to other teams. They might have done it for aerodynamic reasons but the engine won't breathe as good as it should.
The sidepod inlets compensate for it surely; whether it’s worth the aero is a different discussion

diffuser
119
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:55 pm
Location: Montreal

Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by diffuser » Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:37 pm

McMika98 wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:14 pm
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:36 pm

Now - what do a say about Prodromu? I like his cleans designs. But he has had Four years to impress me and... he hasn't. Renault have no star aerodynamicst on their 2018 car and they're handing Mclaren their butts in high speed and low speed.
Amen on PP. Have been on his case since day 1 when everyone proclaimed the second coming of Newey. As i see it, he is a one trick pony. We have seen very little inreally aero in the last 4 years that really stood out and worse he didnt compromise while the likes of Newey reacted with a newer philosophy.

Also its clear that the aero philosophy since the last 4 years has now plateaued with very little returns, no wonder they are trying newer ideas which will take time.
You do know that the aero rules changed last year and that is why they are trying new things ... Nothing plateaued last year ...maybe the end of 2016 cause they slowed development for the old aero.

I love guys like you..You were on his case from day 1?? What can you see from here that tells that he's good or bad??
I can see:

- Graduated from London’s Imperial College with a first-class honours degree in aeronautical engineering.
- Master’s degree in computational fluid dynamics and structural mechanics with distinction.
All that before he turned 22.
- Newey Speaks highly of him.
- He started with Mclaren and Ron went back to get him.
- When Newey left for RBR he took him with him..

He might not be Newey but "bad" come on.....

McMika98
2
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2017 9:40 pm

Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by McMika98 » Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:52 pm

diffuser wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:37 pm


You do know that the aero rules changed last year and that is why they are trying new things ... Nothing plateaued last year ...maybe the end of 2016 cause they slowed development for the old aero.

I love guys like you..You were on his case from day 1?? What can you see from here that tells that he's good or bad??
I can see:

- Graduated from London’s Imperial College with a first-class honours degree in aeronautical engineering.
- Master’s degree in computational fluid dynamics and structural mechanics with distinction.
All that before he turned 22.
- Newey Speaks highly of him.
- He started with Mclaren and Ron went back to get him.
- When Newey left for RBR he took him with him..

He might not be Newey but "bad" come on.....
I have no personal agenda and clearly he knows his stuff. I was merely trying to manage expectations on all of a sudden being on a RedBull level. I had my doubts but was still hoping for some storyline but after 4 years of perspective, my vision is tinted.

techman
-16
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2016 9:25 am

Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by techman » Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:38 pm

You can all make up whatever you want but they did say that the upgrades did correlate and they got the update they expected.
so wheres the results, if the upgrades did correlate. for me its all talk no results. mclaren cant fool everyone. maybe some might still believe in their hype. that why they consistently talk about #bellieveinmclaren

godlameroso
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Location: Miami FL

Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by godlameroso » Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:37 pm

RonDennis wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:56 pm
Big Tea wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:26 pm
I do not know enough about the design stuff to have an opinion if truth be told, but my gut feeling is that they have a correlation problem between design/simulation and reality.
They also have an attitude problem. We are entitled to see Mclaren as the almighty team they were, but are realising now they have slipped to just a good midfield team.
They seem not to accept this and are still not stepping back and getting the fundamentals right before inventing and fitting superduper stuff noone else has.
Well, I posted a article some time ago on Marca where they talked about a correlation problem, which they said was the reason why all the updates were delayed by months. Doesn't sound so strange after all. I really don't understand why people are still acting like they are doing ok this year. They switched to Renault to be clear 4th, they are now fighting with Toro Rosso, Haas and Force India. There seems to be no leadership at all, because who's actually responsible for the mess? Nobody knows. Where are the updates that should have put them clear of the midfield? All talk, no results.

Edit: was just checking a tweet of a McLaren aerodynamicist. He said that the problems aren't easy to solve.

https://twitter.com/ivanlda/status/1005929033002115072
Problems aren't easy to solve but at least the area to focus on and the direction is clear.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

shotzski
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Location: Manila, Philippines

Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by shotzski » Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:07 am

With all the talk of Mclaren running mmore 'Drag' than others, can't Mclaren just shed those off, make compromise on setup, and make their drivers adjust their style on cornering? Then they'll see how much fast they can go. Just a thought

diffuser
119
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:55 pm
Location: Montreal

Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by diffuser » Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:09 am

techman wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:38 pm
You can all make up whatever you want but they did say that the upgrades did correlate and they got the update they expected.
so wheres the results, if the upgrades did correlate. for me its all talk no results. mclaren cant fool everyone. maybe some might still believe in their hype. that why they consistently talk about #bellieveinmclaren
I'm not sure why they weren't looking for more but they said they expected X and got X. Now why are they looking for X when you need U or better, I don't know. They obviously thought X was enough. There is this low speed traction issue which has affected them, to a varying degree, at all tracks.

You're still stuck on last year, they've changed that tune or aren't you listening? Zak has come out and said he doesn't think they'll compete for wins this year or next. They've fallen on their sword, they said "mea culpa" by firing someone whom I presume they think was to blame. It isn't a great situation but it is what it is.

GrayGreat
7
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2016 6:21 am

Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by GrayGreat » Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:34 am

shotzski wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:07 am
With all the talk of Mclaren running mmore 'Drag' than others, can't Mclaren just shed those off, make compromise on setup, and make their drivers adjust their style on cornering? Then they'll see how much fast they can go. Just a thought
This draggy cassis myth has been busted several times in this thread and majority of the people here are in agreement that the drag is not an issue, mechanical grip amd traction out of slow corners is.
Eric Boullier said that they were forced to run more wing / downforce in Canada because of rear grip / traction issues, amd even with that added wing / downforce, McLaren were only 1 kph down on Verstappen at the end of straight before final chicane. That tells us that cassis is not any draggy, atleast not any more.
Another thing to note is, if they did not have traction issues in Canada, they would have been able to exit the hairpin with more speed and probably would have been faster than RBR in speed traps.

techman
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Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2016 9:25 am

Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by techman » Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:27 am

You're still stuck on last year, they've changed that tune or aren't you listening? Zak has come out and said he doesn't think they'll compete for wins this year or next. They've fallen on their sword, they said "mea culpa" by firing someone whom I presume they think was to blame. It isn't a great situation but it is what it is.
well i agree zak has changed tune in a recent interview. but you have to remember you have thank renault for them to change their tune. if that scapegoat engine was still in that mclaren car, the finger pointing towards that scapegoat engine would have still continue probably even harder. thank goodness its a different engine now.

M840TR
147
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:04 pm

Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by M840TR » Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:13 am

techman wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:27 am
You're still stuck on last year, they've changed that tune or aren't you listening? Zak has come out and said he doesn't think they'll compete for wins this year or next. They've fallen on their sword, they said "mea culpa" by firing someone whom I presume they think was to blame. It isn't a great situation but it is what it is.
well i agree zak has changed tune in a recent interview. but you have to remember you have thank renault for them to change their tune. if that scapegoat engine was still in that mclaren car, the finger pointing towards that scapegoat engine would have still continue probably even harder. thank goodness its a different engine now.
A very good and understated point. Really a positive among the plethora of negatives. They now know their problems more which'l help them in the future. I hate how the Honda situation went but the seeds were made toxic from the beginning from incompetence and it had to end.

makecry
37
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2016 9:33 pm

Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by makecry » Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:10 am

GrayGreat wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:34 am
shotzski wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:07 am
With all the talk of Mclaren running mmore 'Drag' than others, can't Mclaren just shed those off, make compromise on setup, and make their drivers adjust their style on cornering? Then they'll see how much fast they can go. Just a thought
This draggy cassis myth has been busted several times in this thread and majority of the people here are in agreement that the drag is not an issue, mechanical grip amd traction out of slow corners is.
Eric Boullier said that they were forced to run more wing / downforce in Canada because of rear grip / traction issues, amd even with that added wing / downforce, McLaren were only 1 kph down on Verstappen at the end of straight before final chicane. That tells us that cassis is not any draggy, atleast not any more.
Another thing to note is, if they did not have traction issues in Canada, they would have been able to exit the hairpin with more speed and probably would have been faster than RBR in speed traps.
Image

I don't believe Eric B's explanation. Why? Here is why, this is a photo from Canada. Eric told us that they ran more wing/downforce because they needed to, that rear wing is skinnier than others and by a huge margin, does that car look like it's a high downforce RW?

Now I am not going to go into the whole draggy chassis discussion but i do what to hear what people have to say about the photo in which it is clear that they are running a very skinny RW compared to haas or FI.

Juzh
222
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 7:45 am

Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by Juzh » Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:45 am

What I noticed is that on his PB lap alonso was 7 kmh down on the long straight compared to his previous run in Q2. What's that supposed to mean? Both laps below.

First q2 lap


Second q2 lap (PB)



Vs hamilton's q3 lap

-wkst-
3
Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2016 8:55 pm

Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by -wkst- » Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:59 am

As ALO said over the team radio, bad driveability out of turn 10, hairpin also bad driveability.

kasio
0
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2016 9:03 am

Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by kasio » Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:49 am

Juzh wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:45 am
What I noticed is that on his PB lap alonso was 7 kmh down on the long straight compared to his previous run in Q2. What's that supposed to mean? Both laps below.

First q2 lap
https://streamable.com/8ier7

Second q2 lap (PB)
https://streamable.com/f382f


Vs hamilton's q3 lap
https://streamable.com/pmx24
from live timing (for a reference).
20.110(258), 23.501(279), 29.376(289) 1:12.987(speedtrap 323)
20.015(257), 23.353(278), 29.488(286) 1:12.856(speedtrap 316)
hmm its really interesting. i will try to find some markers

BrunoH
8
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2016 12:18 pm

Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by BrunoH » Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:16 am

Again who the hell belives in that Fraud Boulier? they did not run more wing than other teams, i also belive they ran less than most, still were way down on top speed!
they have problems of Drag, problems of traction, due to poor chassis/ suspension design... they have a lot of problems and non will be fixed this year because i belive they do not know why!

they were going to have this magic update in Barcelona that was going to fix all this issues and its clear it did not. They keep falling more and more down the grip #fact!