2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

This forum contains threads to discuss teams themselves. Anything not technical about the cars, including restructuring, performances etc belongs here.
bigpat
17
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 12:50 am

Re: 2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

Post by bigpat » Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:46 am

Soichiro wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:35 am
bigpat wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:43 am
All these expert comments from people that have 0% experience of any sort of racing or driving racecars themselves....
And how exactly do you know that?
By some saying what the driver should've done given a situation etc with the wonder of hindsight...
Yes sometimes they make mistakes, as they are human, and I too wince at mistakes like all viewers, but there are 'armchair' drivers passing judgement on people, when they would themselves would have no idea if put in the same car and situation....

Hammerfist
4
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:18 am

Re: 2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

Post by Hammerfist » Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:14 am

bigpat wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:43 am
All these expert comments from people that have 0% experience of any sort of racing or driving racecars themselves....

Remember even as an F1 rookie, a driver like Gasly has typically been racing for 15 years, they are not bunnys. Watch them in GP3 and F2, let alone high level karting, and you'll see they have the racecraft smarts. I'f I'm honest, Lewis was caught napping on one of the restarts as well....

Funny how everyone is wise with hindsight of incidents. As for Kimi vs Lewis, I'm a Lewis fan, but if he didn't drop to 3rd at the start, none of it would have happened. He has to be honest with himself....

As for Honda engine power deficit, a clear comparison isn't possible with different age tyres between cars. Qualifying is the still the true indication. Even then, none of us know how efficient the Toro Rosso chassis /aero package is, which can give a skewed indication. Just look at the difference between Red Bull and McLaren with the same engine, which now says that it wasn't all Honda's fault after all...
Yeah, let's not forget a few races ago, we were raving at Honda's straight line speed in Canada when they were making mince meat out of Haas and Force India cars during the race. Videos were posted too. So i find the Gasly comments very strange if I'm honest.

techman
-16
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2016 9:25 am

Re: 2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

Post by techman » Tue Jul 10, 2018 3:25 am

Yeah, let's not forget a few races ago, we were raving at Honda's straight line speed in Canada when they were making mince meat out of Haas and Force India cars during the race. Videos were posted too. So i find the Gasly comments very strange if I'm honest.
i think honda probem is not on short circuits with long straights , its bigger circuits with long straights. but to be honest in silverstone gasly race pace was decent, qualifying mer and ferrari and their q modes

Zynerji
61
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:14 pm

Re: 2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

Post by Zynerji » Tue Jul 10, 2018 3:36 am

techman wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 3:25 am
Yeah, let's not forget a few races ago, we were raving at Honda's straight line speed in Canada when they were making mince meat out of Haas and Force India cars during the race. Videos were posted too. So i find the Gasly comments very strange if I'm honest.
i think honda probem is not on short circuits with long straights , its bigger circuits with long straights. but to be honest in silverstone gasly race pace was decent, qualifying mer and ferrari and their q modes
Could it be tied to a lack of heavy braking (harvest) zones?

techman
-16
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2016 9:25 am

Re: 2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

Post by techman » Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:45 am

i expect good performance from gasly in germany, the track characteristic are similar to bahrain. i just hope they go for 2 stopper. pit gasly early and our pace with soft in the end of best of the rest in silverstone. just need to be brave and go for 2 stopper

makecry
39
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2016 9:33 pm

Re: 2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

Post by makecry » Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:25 am

McMika98 wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 12:05 pm
Toro Rosso losing "crazy" time on the straights - Gasly https://motorsport.com/f1/news/toro-ros ... y-1057491/

Damm. Both RedBull and Toro Rosso drivers making noise. Cant see how he pulled 9 tenths on the Force India on the corners with the old package. Race will be pretty lame by looks of things.
I honestly mistook this article's post for 2015-2017. LOL,

"We're talking about nine tenths compared to Force India and Sauber, so yeah, very difficult to fight.

"But in the corners, looking at the GPS, we are faster and it looks pretty good, but just on the straights at the moment we are really slow.

"Objectively we have no pace, not coming from the car, but from the engine."

Oh boi. So much Deja Vu right there.

carisi2k
31
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2014 10:26 pm

Re: 2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

Post by carisi2k » Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:38 am

Maybe Toro Rosso had too much downforce on the car this weekend just like it's sister team. Unless you have a huge cornering advantage like the RB5 and 6 you need more horses for the straight bits.

bigpat
17
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 12:50 am

Re: 2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

Post by bigpat » Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:40 am

!Technical wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:50 pm
It seems to me that there are many operational issues within the team at the moment.

1) Hartley's car wasn't ready on time? Wtf. Come on. You are a team in the pinnacle of motorsport.
2) Gasly's strategies don't make a great deal of sense. Alonso pitted on lap X. This would put Alonso on the faster race tire. Toro Rosso pits LAPS later. Was the strategy to wait for a Safety Car. Doesn't seem like it. They didn't have a great strategy in other races as well.
3) Pitstops are nothing special. Teams like Sauber have been refining their pitstops and are now the quickest in the pitlane. Sure they ruined Leclerc's race but they got it right the other times.
The pinnacle of motorsport still has a human element, so mistakes will always happen.

The fact that the team couldn't have it done tells you just how complex these hybrid PU's are. I believe the car was done, but start up revealed a loose connector? Remember that the teams have a curfew, and are are only allowed a number of "jokers" to play per season.
Funnily enough, the cars weren't any more reliable when the teams could work all night, and change everything they wanted. The lack of fiddling, and less fatigue means less chance of getting things wrong...

The pit stops are over emphasized. Sauber's pit stop speed ultimately led to a DNF, and Haas have have their issues pushing the limits too. Some teams take 0.5 sec longer, but the car leaves with all four wheels on the wagon. You can't win the race, if you don't finish it.....

techman
-16
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2016 9:25 am

Re: 2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

Post by techman » Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:55 am

I honestly mistook this article's post for 2015-2017. LOL,

"We're talking about nine tenths compared to Force India and Sauber, so yeah, very difficult to fight.

"But in the corners, looking at the GPS, we are faster and it looks pretty good, but just on the straights at the moment we are really slow.

"Objectively we have no pace, not coming from the car, but from the engine."

Oh boi. So much Deja Vu right there.
i dont know if you know this, its the same gasly who blamed the new aero package to be not working.
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/head ... gasly.html

i hope you are around next season. when redbull honda will embarass mclaren and will be a podium contender. dont compare 2 rookies , a shoe string budget team like toro rosso. let see what redbull honda can do next season

makecry
39
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2016 9:33 pm

Re: 2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

Post by makecry » Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:54 am

techman wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:55 am
I honestly mistook this article's post for 2015-2017. LOL,

"We're talking about nine tenths compared to Force India and Sauber, so yeah, very difficult to fight.

"But in the corners, looking at the GPS, we are faster and it looks pretty good, but just on the straights at the moment we are really slow.

"Objectively we have no pace, not coming from the car, but from the engine."

Oh boi. So much Deja Vu right there.
i dont know if you know this, its the same gasly who blamed the new aero package to be not working.
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/head ... gasly.html

i hope you are around next season. when redbull honda will embarass mclaren and will be a podium contender. dont compare 2 rookies , a shoe string budget team like toro rosso. let see what redbull honda can do next season
I am planning on replacing my '01 NSX with a 2017 or a 2018 NSX(not a McLaren 570GT which I can obviously afford FYI) and and my daily driver is a turbocharged '18 Accord, just to let you know that I am not anti-Honda and have been driving Hondas since I was 16 and take one to work everyday and I am willing to drop north of $150k(which is a LOT of money) on a car made by them.

I am not even comparing "a shoe string budget team like toro rosso" to anyone like you just accused me of (lol). All I did was point out that we heard the same thing from another team running the same engine and that this is Deja Vu.When they said it, hell broke loose but here Gasly(your god lol) is saying it and all we get is a couple of sensible posters here condemning it.But I like the fact that you missed the point and it touched a nerve there. (yay)

By saying what Gasly said, he threw Honda under the bus. He literally said their car is fine and Honda sucks.Literally what Fernando said in 2017. The same --- thing.


I have mentioned it before (multiple times but you would conveniently ignore that ofcourse) that Ricciardo winning WDC with RedBull Honda is the one thing I want if not for Fernando winning with McLaren Honda.

Anyway , continue, whatever makes you happy. =D>

GrayGreat
7
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2016 6:21 am

Re: 2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

Post by GrayGreat » Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:50 am

makecry wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:25 am
McMika98 wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 12:05 pm
Toro Rosso losing "crazy" time on the straights - Gasly https://motorsport.com/f1/news/toro-ros ... y-1057491/

Damm. Both RedBull and Toro Rosso drivers making noise. Cant see how he pulled 9 tenths on the Force India on the corners with the old package. Race will be pretty lame by looks of things.
I honestly mistook this article's post for 2015-2017. LOL,

"We're talking about nine tenths compared to Force India and Sauber, so yeah, very difficult to fight.

"But in the corners, looking at the GPS, we are faster and it looks pretty good, but just on the straights at the moment we are really slow.

"Objectively we have no pace, not coming from the car, but from the engine."

Oh boi. So much Deja Vu right there.
It took only half a year to start complaining about Honda. McLaren lasted three years with Honda. Lets see how long RedBull lasts. Wait, their contract is only for 2 years. Oh well...

j.yank
40
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 12:45 pm

Re: 2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

Post by j.yank » Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:12 am

makecry wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:54 am
All I did was point out that we heard the same thing from another team running the same engine and that this is Deja Vu.When they said it, hell broke loose but here Gasly(your god lol) is saying it and all we get is a couple of sensible posters here condemning it.But I like the fact that you missed the point and it touched a nerve there. (yay)

By saying what Gasly said, he threw Honda under the bus. He literally said their car is fine and Honda sucks.Literally what Fernando said in 2017. The same --- thing.
Yes, you are right - last year we heared a lot about the weak Honda and the mighty chassis, but now we see what happen with the mighty chassis driven by Renault. I am realy worried that the same thing is going on again this year. The driver says that they are gaining in the corners but loosing on strights, however, during the last race he was loosing constantly 0.3 sec in sector one where are the corners, and compensating these 0.3 sec on strights in other two sectors. Gasly should have smoked something.

restless
16
Joined: Tue May 10, 2016 8:12 am

Re: 2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

Post by restless » Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:39 am

RB (MV) complaining that Renault engine makes'em loose 1sec on straights
TR (PG) complaining that Honda engine makes'em loose 0.9sec on straights

Am i the only one not to see difference? We are aware that R&H engines lack compared to M&F ... so ... its expected
And it seems they are ~ on same level, cause claimed losses are in same ballpark, so why the noise?
Its what it is.
Hopefully after summer break next engine iteration will close the gap somewhat.

marmer
30
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:48 am

Re: 2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

Post by marmer » Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:53 am

Anyone support my theory that Hartley is only still in the car as they are waiting for the final upgraded honda engine

Give Hartley a few engine pens in a row to get some more engines into the pool for the new driver to get the best out of

Otherwise they are just dragging a dead dog down the path for a laugh

techman
-16
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2016 9:25 am

Re: 2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

Post by techman » Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:13 am

points were on the cards in silverstone. gasly was ahead of perez but lost the position at the start with the safety car. lost positions at the start. if he can fix some of his error , we could have got some points . anyway i expect germany gp will be good for TR. the characteristics are ideal for TR