Why overtaking is dead, and might never come back

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roon
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Re: Why overtaking is dead, and might never come back

Post by roon » Sat Jul 07, 2018 3:25 am

mani517 wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 1:45 am
It is one of the main things that F1 has to change to become fair. Make teams play for the rules of an independent governing body...
Indycar and NASCAR already exist, though.

mani517 wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 1:45 am
...consulting/collecting opinions is OK, but, teams can't get to write the rules.
But that's where the smart people are.

strad
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Re: Why overtaking is dead, and might never come back

Post by strad » Sat Jul 07, 2018 7:08 pm

All these incidents resulting from snap oversteer prove Mear's point. There is too much dependence on aero down force and the second they get even a little sideways they lose downforce and there is no chance for the driver to recover. They need to lose downforce dependence and rely more on mechanical grip.
Motorsport without danger is like cooking without salt
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mani517
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Re: Why overtaking is dead, and might never come back

Post by mani517 » Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:04 am

roon wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 3:25 am
mani517 wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 1:45 am
It is one of the main things that F1 has to change to become fair. Make teams play for the rules of an independent governing body...
Indycar and NASCAR already exist, though.

mani517 wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 1:45 am
...consulting/collecting opinions is OK, but, teams can't get to write the rules.
But that's where the smart people are.
By the reference to Indycar and NASCAR, do you acknowledge that they are fairer sport than F1? And, why would you assume "playing to the rules of independent governing body" should mean a spec series?

...and teams do have smart people, but, let their smartness be used to make the car and not to write rules that favour them.

BTW, I assume, you like the technical side of the sport... it would be nicer if you could bring some meaningful argument to the table instead of just taking a jab.

roon
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Re: Why overtaking is dead, and might never come back

Post by roon » Sun Jul 08, 2018 11:30 pm

Well, Silverstone 2018 just happened.

strad
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Re: Why overtaking is dead, and might never come back

Post by strad » Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:53 am

A number of the incidents proved what Mears said correct. And the pros from Dover even mentioned that I was right all along about the fin and crosswinds. =D>
Motorsport without danger is like cooking without salt
Sir Stirling Moss

mani517
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Re: Why overtaking is dead, and might never come back

Post by mani517 » Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:31 am

roon wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 11:30 pm
Well, Silverstone 2018 just happened.
Still not a meaningful argument... instead of just coming back and trying to imply that the argument is flawed (or others are wrong) whenever a good race happens, why not make this a constructive argument and participate in the discussion?

If I really have to explain, Silverstone falls under the category of random/rare good show. In other words, Silverstone doesn't quality as a normal sample for this argument.

Silverstone, in fact, highlights some of the points mentioned in this thread

1. Lewis' storming come back drive highlights the performance difference between a top-tier team and the rest of the field
2. We saw most of the overtaking, because, Lewis and Raikkonen fell out of position (don't mistake me, it would still have been a good race without that, but, that doesn't change the fact most of the racing was just a consequence of super-fast cars falling out of position to the back of the grid)
3. Also, as mentioned in one my earlier posts, take DRS out of the equation and many of the spectacular overtakes may not have happened (event that mighty last min move from Vettel was DRS influenced)

Zynerji
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Re: Why overtaking is dead, and might never come back

Post by Zynerji » Mon Jul 09, 2018 4:07 am

Overtaking attempts are just as exciting as a completed overtake.

Some great races are defensive. (Ver/Rai Spain 16, Alo/Schu Imola 05).

Manoah2u
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Re: Why overtaking is dead, and might never come back

Post by Manoah2u » Mon Jul 09, 2018 4:43 pm

and yet another race.

anybody who has watched silverstone and thinks overtaking is dead needs to go to the doctor and ask for a legally blind note.
corner after corner, the entire field taking turns on eachother. fantastic race!
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.

strad
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Re: Why overtaking is dead, and might never come back

Post by strad » Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:56 pm

I suggest we discount DRS over takes from that equation.
Motorsport without danger is like cooking without salt
Sir Stirling Moss

Zynerji
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Re: Why overtaking is dead, and might never come back

Post by Zynerji » Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:00 pm

strad wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:56 pm
I suggest we discount DRS over takes from that equation.
Why? Once you start that way, then pit lane overtake should be dropped as well as they require even less skill...

The only ones that should not count is a driver retirement, as gaining a place because the car that's 60s ahead of you on track has to pull over will inflate the numbers, as a P1 mechanical failure would count as 19 overtakes on that lap...

strad
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Re: Why overtaking is dead, and might never come back

Post by strad » Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:21 pm

Why? Once you start that way, then pit lane overtake should be dropped as well as they require even less skill...
.
Ok...I'm good with that.
Motorsport without danger is like cooking without salt
Sir Stirling Moss

Juzh
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Re: Why overtaking is dead, and might never come back

Post by Juzh » Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:59 pm

Powerslide wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:42 pm
track design may help as we have seen..slower corners that arent too dependent on downforce followed up by a long straight.
This is not a good idea. We've got a bunch of tracks with slow corners leading onto very long straights with little impact. Canada hairpin, Russia final turn, entire red bull ring, barcelona final turn..

pantherxxx
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Re: Why overtaking is dead, and might never come back

Post by pantherxxx » Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:44 pm

I think I know a solution for more exciting F1. Every team should run with 3 cars. It would mean more cars with the same speed. Imagine a fight between 3 Red Bulls, 3 Mercs, and 3 Ferraris.

z.topoln
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Re: Why overtaking is dead, and might never come back

Post by z.topoln » Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:51 pm

Imagine then a season with one team dominant. Podiums would get boring real fast...

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roon
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Re: Why overtaking is dead, and might never come back

Post by roon » Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:38 pm

Easy. Just add a fourth spot. But why stop there? Make a twenty-step podium. Champagne suppliers would support this measure. And everyone gets a trophy (although diminishing size means a key-chain sized trophy for P20).