2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

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mclaren111
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by mclaren111 » Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:50 pm

Andrew Benson:
Mercedes announce significant technical changes. Engineering director Aldo Costa and performance director Mark Ellis will leave their roles at end of season. Chief designer John Owen to replace Costa as head of engineering. Chief Vehicle Dynamicist Loic Serra to replace Ellis

Is Costa an option for Mclaren as Team Principal ??

Thunder
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by Thunder » Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:57 pm

mclaren111 wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:50 pm
Andrew Benson:
Mercedes announce significant technical changes. Engineering director Aldo Costa and performance director Mark Ellis will leave their roles at end of season. Chief designer John Owen to replace Costa as head of engineering. Chief Vehicle Dynamicist Loic Serra to replace Ellis

Is Costa an option for Mclaren as Team Principal ??
Nope.
turbof1 wrote: YOU SHALL NOT......STALLLLL!!!
#aerogollum

M840TR
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by M840TR » Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:12 pm

mclaren111 wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:50 pm
Andrew Benson:
Mercedes announce significant technical changes. Engineering director Aldo Costa and performance director Mark Ellis will leave their roles at end of season. Chief designer John Owen to replace Costa as head of engineering. Chief Vehicle Dynamicist Loic Serra to replace Ellis

Is Costa an option for Mclaren as Team Principal ??
He's a powertrain guy. No business being team principle.

bonjon1979
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by bonjon1979 » Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:40 pm

M840TR wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:12 pm
mclaren111 wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:50 pm
Andrew Benson:
Mercedes announce significant technical changes. Engineering director Aldo Costa and performance director Mark Ellis will leave their roles at end of season. Chief designer John Owen to replace Costa as head of engineering. Chief Vehicle Dynamicist Loic Serra to replace Ellis

Is Costa an option for Mclaren as Team Principal ??
He's a powertrain guy. No business being team principle.
He was technical director at Ferrari, and their chief designer before then so slightly more than a powertrain guy.

M840TR
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by M840TR » Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:52 pm

bonjon1979 wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:40 pm
M840TR wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:12 pm
mclaren111 wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:50 pm
Andrew Benson:




Is Costa an option for Mclaren as Team Principal ??
He's a powertrain guy. No business being team principle.
He was technical director at Ferrari, and their chief designer before then so slightly more than a powertrain guy.
He's a mechanical engineer by profession and yes he was TD and has served in similar capacity in few other teams but he's mainly been involved in design/engineering roles which is worlds apart from being a team principle. I wouldn't mind if he filled in Tim Goss' seat though.

diffuser
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by diffuser » Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:07 pm

PhillipM wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:42 pm
Nobody ruled it out, having one problem doesn't stop you from having another.
The assumption is they compromised the rear mechnically for aero gains on other tracks deliberately, and without the aero working properly it's giving them a bit of a double whammy of issues at traction biased circuits.
I was looking at Ferrari's rear end, it looks almost the same setup....that doesn't mean there isn't a problem...but I think it makes it a less obvious problem.

Jolle
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by Jolle » Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:46 pm

diffuser wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:07 pm
PhillipM wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:42 pm
Nobody ruled it out, having one problem doesn't stop you from having another.
The assumption is they compromised the rear mechnically for aero gains on other tracks deliberately, and without the aero working properly it's giving them a bit of a double whammy of issues at traction biased circuits.
I was looking at Ferrari's rear end, it looks almost the same setup....that doesn't mean there isn't a problem...but I think it makes it a less obvious problem.
Not quite. Although the pull rod is attached inwards more at Ferrari then the Merc for instance, it looks the upright is made wider at the top. That way, at the Ferrari, you still have 100% of wheel movement. At McLaren its probally somewhere between 60-70%. Plus, the push rod on the Mclaren almost points forward. In theory it should be all ridged and should have no losses or flex, but.... it’s just too ambitious (same kind of problem the F14T had with it’s front suspension)

McG
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by McG » Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:16 pm

It might not be any specific problem. Maybe other teams have just done a better job or in Haas case have been very smart with a close partnership with Ferrari. Remember the Ferrari engine is just as good as Merc now so that's a massive boost for Ferrari powered teams, then you've got Force India who have some sort of relationship going on with Merc. Renault I think are ahead of McLaren because it's their own engine. STR and Williams are just dire, at least McLaren aren't in that situation (anymore).

I think McLaren could just be in their natural place at the moment and their main issue is fully getting used to the Renault engine and what that may involve.

I'm sure they can and want to update and change certain parts of the car just like every other team.

NL_Fer
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by NL_Fer » Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:23 am

PhillipM wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:42 pm
Nobody ruled it out, having one problem doesn't stop you from having another.
The assumption is they compromised the rear mechnically for aero gains on other tracks deliberately, and without the aero working properly it's giving them a bit of a double whammy of issues at traction biased circuits.
Correct, who knows, maybe their suspension doesn’t stiffen up enough under high speed (cornering). That could be called an aero problem right?

M840TR
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by M840TR » Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:38 am

NL_Fer wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:23 am
PhillipM wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:42 pm
Nobody ruled it out, having one problem doesn't stop you from having another.
The assumption is they compromised the rear mechnically for aero gains on other tracks deliberately, and without the aero working properly it's giving them a bit of a double whammy of issues at traction biased circuits.
Correct, who knows, maybe their suspension doesn’t stiffen up enough under high speed (cornering). That could be called an aero problem right?
It's the low speed corners where it struggles more.

mclaren111
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by mclaren111 » Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:01 am

Autosport.com
McLaren Formula 1 boss Zak Brown says the decision-making process at the team had become "gridlocked", with too much reliance on committees.
"The structure is not allowing certain individuals to be as entrepreneurial as I would like them to be," said Brown.

"I think it has not enabled them to make decisions quickly enough.

"My job leading the Formula 1 team is to ultimately put that pace into the organisation, give the direction,
get the right leadership in place
and get on with getting back to where I think everyone recognises McLaren should be."

Definitely positive steps in the right direction. I wish him well and hope 2019 will bring a good step forward.

NL_Fer
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by NL_Fer » Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:48 am

M840TR wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:38 am
NL_Fer wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:23 am
PhillipM wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:42 pm
Nobody ruled it out, having one problem doesn't stop you from having another.
The assumption is they compromised the rear mechnically for aero gains on other tracks deliberately, and without the aero working properly it's giving them a bit of a double whammy of issues at traction biased circuits.
Correct, who knows, maybe their suspension doesn’t stiffen up enough under high speed (cornering). That could be called an aero problem right?
It's the low speed corners where it struggles more.
Teams run a pseudo-active suspension. A passive system, which acts like an active one, without the use of a computer and electronic actuators.

For optimal performance, they need a soft suspension for good mechanical grip during low speed corner exits, but a very firm/stable setup for high speed cornering, because to much roll will hurt aerodynamics.

If McL’s psuedo-active suspension is less advanced, they will be to stiff for low speed corners or to soft on hi speed corners.

M840TR
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by M840TR » Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:10 pm

NL_Fer wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:48 am
M840TR wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:38 am
NL_Fer wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:23 am


Correct, who knows, maybe their suspension doesn’t stiffen up enough under high speed (cornering). That could be called an aero problem right?
It's the low speed corners where it struggles more.
Teams run a pseudo-active suspension. A passive system, which acts like an active one, without the use of a computer and electronic actuators.

For optimal performance, they need a soft suspension for good mechanical grip during low speed corner exits, but a very firm/stable setup for high speed cornering, because to much roll will hurt aerodynamics.

If McL’s psuedo-active suspension is less advanced, they will be to stiff for low speed corners or to soft on hi speed corners.
Which suspension? Are you talking about the one introduced in Spa and banned this year?

diffuser
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Location: Montreal

Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by diffuser » Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:22 pm

McLaren said their aero problem was causing them to be slow out of the corners and top speed.

Let's see where they are after they fix that before going off in 100 directions.

I for one am Leary of their change of direction stability. Think I saw a weakness there in those graphs I had posted way back. But there is no point talking about that issue, it might change after they fix the aero issue.

M840TR
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by M840TR » Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:13 pm

"The structure is not allowing certain individuals to be as entrepreneurial as I would like them to be," said Brown.

"I think it has not enabled them to make decisions quickly enough. I think sometimes there is an appropriate time for decision by committee, and then I think there's also times when there should be decisions by individuals.
What kind of system are they running in there? Does everything that go onto the car or happen at the factory has to be approved by a committee of some kind? No wonder Zak says they need to be more "nimble".