General Honda F1 Topic

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
carisi2k
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by carisi2k » Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:37 am

I think both the Honda and Renault are losing on the ers-h front. Austria was not so bad because of the heavy braking zones. Maybe they should get rid of the 2mj limit on ers-k and see if Renault and Honda can become more competitive.

carisi2k
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by carisi2k » Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:39 am

Maybe make it that the manufacture can use whatever solution they want but the energy recovery is limited to 4MJ. Open up the front wheels for recovery if you choose to not use ers-h but make sure 4wd is banned.

etusch
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by etusch » Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:22 am

carisi2k wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:37 am
I think both the Honda and Renault are losing on the ers-h front. Austria was not so bad because of the heavy braking zones. Maybe they should get rid of the 2mj limit on ers-k and see if Renault and Honda can become more competitive.
If there were no limit for K, it will benefit for 2 best engines more and if they are better they will be far better without limitation.
If they are good with good regenaration tracks and not good lesser regenaration opportunity tracks, maybe it performance difference is because of ICE rather than elektric power

TakataDomeNSX
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by TakataDomeNSX » Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:54 pm

Gasly strikes again

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/gasl ... e-1059660/

Quickly losing my liking for him.

carisi2k
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by carisi2k » Sat Jul 14, 2018 1:00 pm

Not when there is a total cap of 4MJ recoverable it wouldn't. The electric is where most of the power is being lost for Renault and Honda. Look at Austria vs Great Britain as an example. The red bulls were very close to Mercedes and Ferrari at Austria because there are more braking zones on the circuit. Silverstone doesn't have as many braking opportunities and is a longer circuit and a larger gap appeared.

There maybe some performance in the ICE but I am thinking that the energy recovery is the big difference with Mercedes and Ferrari both able to recover most of the 4MJ per lap with the H. This is not to say that the Renault's ers-k is good or reliable just that it looks like on circuits where they can't recover the 2MJ through the K that both Renault and Honda struggle at the moment.

Chicane
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by Chicane » Sat Jul 14, 2018 1:06 pm

"The chassis is good but with the engine we have we lose too much time"

This is the third or fourth article in the last few weeks where Gasly talks about huge engine deficit. Mclaren waited for third year before venting but fireworks seem to have started already with Toro Rosso.

Honda have improved both in terms of reliability and performance but the road ahead isn't going to be rosy especially in light of a moving target and a huge gap.
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PhillipM
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by PhillipM » Sat Jul 14, 2018 1:39 pm

Wait until Red Bull get them, All the Honda lovers crying at Mclaren haven't seen anything if theose Honda's aren't competitive next year, Red Bull wil drag them through the mud.

PlatinumZealot
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by PlatinumZealot » Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:47 pm

Hire a Mercedes engine guy should be the next step. A guy who is intimately close with the different engine system details.
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Zynerji
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by Zynerji » Sat Jul 14, 2018 3:22 pm

PlatinumZealot wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:47 pm
Hire a Mercedes engine guy should be the next step. A guy who is intimately close with the different engine system details.
That person is probably the most protected in the team... Long term contact with tons of non compete clauses.

I'm getting to the point that the 2021 engines should just stay as they are, but all engine designs and data should be shared at the end of 2019.

Then it's down to who can put together the best PU package from all of the combined R&D.

But many ppl hate that idea, so whatever.

GhostF1
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by GhostF1 » Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:01 pm

Gasly just sounds like he is protecting his future career now and ensuring that it's publicly believed his results are of direct blame to Honda, a scapegoat which is easy to target, as opposed to his driving.

Big Tea
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by Big Tea » Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:09 pm

GhostF1 wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:01 pm
Gasly just sounds like he is protecting his future career now and ensuring that it's publicly believed his results are of direct blame to Honda, a scapegoat which is easy to target, as opposed to his driving.
I also wonder how many 'interviews' these snippets are taken from. Was it just the one and a different quote coming out each time?

IT also depends on what STR want out of the year. There is money in points, but Red Bull would have to put money in to claim it. If it is just being used as a work in progress this year and a full on go-for-glory next year, it does not make sense to concentrate on getting points before getting the equipment right.

But other than that, I do not like to hear a driver whine.
One test is worth a thousand expert opinions

etusch
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by etusch » Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:48 pm

TakataDomeNSX wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:54 pm
Gasly strikes again

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/gasl ... e-1059660/

Quickly losing my liking for him.
I don't know what is route of his words but it is obvious that leclerc is a great driver maybe best in the grid including experienced drivers. I am not sure if another one can make this car Q3 contender. When we look gap with Ericson it is not just Ferrari engine or Sauber car. I am sure Gasly also know that.

etusch
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by etusch » Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:59 pm

carisi2k wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 1:00 pm
Not when there is a total cap of 4MJ recoverable it wouldn't. The electric is where most of the power is being lost for Renault and Honda. Look at Austria vs Great Britain as an example. The red bulls were very close to Mercedes and Ferrari at Austria because there are more braking zones on the circuit. Silverstone doesn't have as many braking opportunities and is a longer circuit and a larger gap appeared.

There maybe some performance in the ICE but I am thinking that the energy recovery is the big difference with Mercedes and Ferrari both able to recover most of the 4MJ per lap with the H. This is not to say that the Renault's ers-k is good or reliable just that it looks like on circuits where they can't recover the 2MJ through the K that both Renault and Honda struggle at the moment.
Short straights help weaker engines. They must be regenerating during engine braking too. If they can use 4 mf per lap and they use all of them it maybe because of ice weakness. Redbulls are not 1 sec behind front runners and if they are gaining 0.3 sec on turns with lesser df Redbull car is far better then two top teams.

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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by godlameroso » Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:34 pm

Gasly is young, he'll say young things from time to time. He delivers on track, and the Honda engine will keep developing through the year, I'm eager to see the next step, and I'm sure they still haven't managed to get the most from the current version.
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techman
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by techman » Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:17 am

"The chassis is good but with the engine we have we lose too much time"

This is the third or fourth article in the last few weeks where Gasly talks about huge engine deficit. Mclaren waited for third year before venting but fireworks seem to have started already with Toro Rosso.

Honda have improved both in terms of reliability and performance but the road ahead isn't going to be rosy especially in light of a moving target and a huge gap.
honda is a match to renault , TR has a history of starting well and falling back, together with rookie drivers i doesnt helps them. wait till next season , when honda have a benchmark chassis and experience drivers. look at mclaren , and vandorne. he is not in his rookie season and still struggles, with their overated chassis design by incompetent mclaren engineers. only driver is giving them all the points