I think the philosophy of the Ferrari cars for past years have been suited for Vettel. Ferrari have adopted the high rake design of Red Bull, a team where Vettel have driven for years. The cars that Vettel drove at Red Bull almost all had a high rake. So it's advantage Vettel imo regarding the car. I don't think Kimi is faster than Vettel per se, but I think he's consistent in his driving and does not take unnecessary risks when not needed. Kimi is all non nonsense and just does the job. You can count on Kimi when you put all eggs in his basket. It's just a matter if there are better drivers on the grid and IMO there are (at least two).Phil wrote: ↑Tue Jul 24, 2018 11:35 amYet, despite this, Mercedes are heading to Hungary leading the WDC by 17 points and the WCC by 10. Small mistakes can be costly and if Ferrari fail to capitalize on this year, I feel there will be some consequences. Vettels contract is secure, but perhaps the management will feel less inclined to put all their eggs in that one basket and entertain an equally strong driver for their second car. Arguably, this should have been Kimi, but he has failed to step up.
I doubt Alonso would go there the same time as Seb, as it seems contrary to Ferrari's normal style of having a clear number one driver and support driver.Phil wrote: ↑Tue Jul 24, 2018 11:35 amI think the Alonso to Ferrari connection is a whortwhile theory to entertain. It depends largely on the question 'how confident are Ferrari in Vettel being the guy to lead the team forward'. I don't mean to hate on Vettel or anything - I think he is an extraordinary driver and qualifier. His championship wins in 2010 and especially in 2012 are testament to that. I do think though that Ferrari is under immense pressure (by themselves) to win a championship. They've come too close in the RedBull dominant years, then they fell back, there was a major restructuring and now, arguably since 1.5 years, they have a championship winning car. Last year didn't go their way - and Vettel (Baku/Singapore/Mexico) was responsible for some of that just as was the car on other occasions that lost them a lot of points. This year, the stakes are even higher with a car that since Austria seems to be the strongest package with a substantial advantage. While I was of the opinion that Mercedes was quickest and that their main issues were tire related, arguably one has to admit that since around Spain or France, Mercedes has been on top of their tire issues, yet Ferrari is right there, if not stronger. Put it down to the engine or twin battery, they're doing something right.
Yet, despite this, Mercedes are heading to Hungary leading the WDC by 17 points and the WCC by 10. Small mistakes can be costly and if Ferrari fail to capitalize on this year, I feel there will be some consequences. Vettels contract is secure, but perhaps the management will feel less inclined to put all their eggs in that one basket and entertain an equally strong driver for their second car. Arguably, this should have been Kimi, but he has failed to step up.
Long term thinking, there is Charles Leclerc who is a Ferrari junior driver, but arguably, he is still very young and given that both RedBull and Mercedes are closed for at least a year, one could entertain perhaps putting Alonso or someone else into that 2nd Ferrari. Maybe Sainz if Renault are after Ocon? I'm still doubtful if Alonso is really being considered or just there as a means to put some pressure on Vettel.
Personally, I think Vettel has been doing a terrific job at Ferrari. Yes, he has made some mistakes, but I think some of those mistakes are not entirely his fault, but perhaps also linked to the pressure Ferrari puts their team under.
I think there are few drivers who wouldn't care less who their team-mate is. Alonso is one of them. And if it is Ferrari's style or not, that's fairly debatable. Kimi won in 2007, yet in 2008, it was Massa who was stronger and thus, had the support of the team. In that sense, I don't buy the "clear number 1 and number 2 driver argument". Ferrari is a strong team. They'd have no problems favoring one driver over the other, using the 2nd driver as a pawn as they have done so on numerous occasion, regardless who that driver is. No one is above the team. Thus it becomes a question of team-management.Big Tea wrote: ↑Tue Jul 24, 2018 11:59 amI doubt Alonso would go there the same time as Seb, as it seems contrary to Ferrari's normal style of having a clear number one driver and support driver.
They would not only take points off each other, but be in danger of taking each other out. Alonso does not tend to get involved in wheelbanging but Seb defiantly does when he thinks it would help (and other times)
I also am not Pro Alonso or Anti Vettel, but still think to make it work Alonso would have to replace Seb.Phil wrote: ↑Tue Jul 24, 2018 1:49 pmIt's an employer/employee relationship. Mercedes could manage their drivers, so can RedBull. If it is stipulated in the contract, the team could easily threaten to not put the driver in the car. as a form of phnishment As great as Hamilton, Vettel, Alonso are and no matter the size of their egos, they are not worth more than the hundredths and thousands of employees in the background that make the whole team. F1 has always and will always be team-sport. If you don't like that, go watch Tennis or something. And besides, when Hamilton was asked to give back the place last year in Hungary, he did.
Having that said, after the Barcelona crash in 2016 between Hamilton and Rosberg, the team supposedly threatened to sit out one driver for a race. The same could happen if Alonso and Vettel were in the same team.
Honestly, I'm not an Alonso fan and I could really care less if he is in F1 next year or not. I've always argued that he is no threat to anyone, thus none of the top-teams really wants/needs him. However, the scenario as suggested is interesting under the presumption that Ferrari are putting themselves under this huge pressure to win championships and arguably have had the car to do it this and last year. Vettel has made some costly mistakes this year which, like last year in Singapore, could prove to be very costly. The big question is; will Ferrari commit themselves fully behind their star driver, or will there be a point when they consider having two equally strong drivers to see if that puts them into a better position?
The strongest available driver must surely be Alonso. And arguably, there would be little issue with simply signing him for a single year to see how it pans out.
Anyway, if this comes across as slightly anti-Vettel, I am not. In my personal opinion, he is doing a great job and I personally think the team should be standing all the way behind him, if not at least to give him the trust that the team is committed equally to him as he is to the team. It was commendable how Vettel reacted last year in Monza to losing out to Mercedes and stood by the team - equally, it would be great to see Ferrari standing behind their driver. in times like these.
Yes, makes sense. Invest 40 mln a year in a 4 time world champion, put a 2 time world champion in same car and ask yourself why there is conflict in the team and you're loosing points.Phil wrote: ↑Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:06 pmPossible scenario:
Arrivabene; "Seb, we will sign Alonso instead of Kimi."
Vettel: "I don't want that."
Arrivabene; "I didn't ask."
I honestly don't see any issue. No, Vettel probably won't like it, but does he realistically have a choice? It's the teams way or the highway. Same applies to driver management. Worst case scenario; Both Vettel and Alonso are close and split their wins throughout the season and a Mercedes driver walks it barely. If they crash, the team could easily punish one driver by threatening to sit him out, like Mercedes supposedly did.
Disclaimer: I don't think it will necessarily happen, just playing devils advocate here.