2018 in-season testing thread

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
GPR-A duplicate2
167
User avatar
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2014 8:00 am

Re: 2018 pre-season testing thread

Post by GPR-A duplicate2 » Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:06 am

mantikos wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 8:47 pm
GPR-A wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 3:10 pm
Could they not have restricted the front wing to have only 3 elements? There are still way too many elements on that wing.
Why? Do you want to make it a stock series? Why take away all the fun?
THERE IS NO FUN and that is why FIA/FOM is revising the regulations. These complex front wings have become headache, because they too heavily rely on clean air to provide front grip and enhance airflow downstream and as soon as a car is in front, these front wings lose efficiency and the cars have large amount of understeer. That is the reason why the front wings are being simplified. Ideally, FIA should do more to help on the mechanical side and there is nothing we have really seen on that front. By reducing the reliance on front wing, the cars should better cope with the challenge of following another car. Those complex front wings are enhancing the airflow downstream, which would then be worked through to generate downforce. By providing larger rear wing, FIA is helping the teams of overcoming the LESS EFFICIENT front wings.

The interesting factor however is going to be on how the reduced elements, which are redirecting air around the front tires, is going to impact the front of the car.

F1 has never been a spec series and I don't think it ever would. That is not a question to debate at all. There will always be scope for creativity that would ensure there is creative variations among cars.

Big Tea
67
User avatar
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:57 pm

Re: 2018 pre-season testing thread

Post by Big Tea » Wed Aug 01, 2018 11:10 am

GPR-A wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:06 am
mantikos wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 8:47 pm
GPR-A wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 3:10 pm
Could they not have restricted the front wing to have only 3 elements? There are still way too many elements on that wing.
Why? Do you want to make it a stock series? Why take away all the fun?
THERE IS NO FUN and that is why FIA/FOM is revising the regulations. These complex front wings have become headache, because they too heavily rely on clean air to provide front grip and enhance airflow downstream and as soon as a car is in front, these front wings lose efficiency and the cars have large amount of understeer. That is the reason why the front wings are being simplified. Ideally, FIA should do more to help on the mechanical side and there is nothing we have really seen on that front. By reducing the reliance on front wing, the cars should better cope with the challenge of following another car. Those complex front wings are enhancing the airflow downstream, which would then be worked through to generate downforce. By providing larger rear wing, FIA is helping the teams of overcoming the LESS EFFICIENT front wings.

The interesting factor however is going to be on how the reduced elements, which are redirecting air around the front tires, is going to impact the front of the car.

F1 has never been a spec series and I don't think it ever would. That is not a question to debate at all. There will always be scope for creativity that would ensure there is creative variations among cars.
This is it in a nutshell. The regs make it so restricted that they have to spend millions to make the slightest advantage. The whole system needs looking at.

They could even consider allowing a new class for anyone who has the spending power and tec, such as 500cc engine (not the first time) and everything else unlimited or run the current rules. (I love the tec so would really love this :D )

They pay their money and take their choice then.
One test is worth a thousand expert opinions

ESPImperium
117
User avatar
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2008 11:08 pm
Location: Glasgow, Scotland

Re: 2018 in-season testing thread

Post by ESPImperium » Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:00 pm

Personally id rather have the front wings the width of this years wings, however allow the teams to have active aero on them, limit the elements to 5 with active aero, and allow the drivers to be able to change the angle of attack by up to 3 degrees over a race distance. For instance if a driver was turning into a right hander, the left side wing would increase by 3 degrees from the base value, and its this base value the driver could change.

I would also allow the teams more downforce from the rear of the car, however the rear wing would remain the same as this years, i would bring back the double diffuser in a strictly limited form where it could not exceed 250mm from each side of the crash structure and go no more than 400mm rearward of the rear axle line.

Wehere we take away, we must give something back, otherwise the cars won't be interesting for the engineers and fast enough for the drivers to drive.

MtthsMlw
687
User avatar
Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2017 5:38 pm
Location: Germany

Re: 2018 in-season testing thread

Post by MtthsMlw » Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:19 pm

Currtent timesheet at lunch break
Image

Big Tea
67
User avatar
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:57 pm

Re: 2018 in-season testing thread

Post by Big Tea » Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:46 pm

MtthsMlw wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:19 pm
Currtent timesheet at lunch break
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DjgpjLzX0AAfp1v.jpg:large
Nothing to read into that is there? Except Kimi is an a different test to the others :D
One test is worth a thousand expert opinions

MtthsMlw
687
User avatar
Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2017 5:38 pm
Location: Germany

Re: 2018 in-season testing thread

Post by MtthsMlw » Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:54 pm

Big Tea wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:46 pm
MtthsMlw wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:19 pm
Currtent timesheet at lunch break
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DjgpjLzX0AAfp1v.jpg:large
Nothing to read into that is there? Except Kimi is an a different test to the others :D
Only interesting thing is that Kimi's lap what quite good on Softs. As fast as Vettel was on US in FP3.

restless
18
Joined: Tue May 10, 2016 8:12 am

Re: 2018 in-season testing thread

Post by restless » Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:57 pm

tracks gets more and more rubber - better grip

Sevach
810
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:00 pm

Re: 2018 in-season testing thread

Post by Sevach » Wed Aug 01, 2018 1:15 pm

On the FW topic i gotta say as always the FIA is taking a sideways step.
They ban cascades, enforce a primitive endplate and reduce the number of elements...
But on the other hand they make the wing wider and with a larger span, that's asking for trouble honestly

f1316
127
Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:36 pm

Re: 2018 in-season testing thread

Post by f1316 » Wed Aug 01, 2018 1:30 pm

Shows how closely I was paying attention to the rules, but I have to say I was also expecting that 'simpler front wing' meant a lot fewer elements than this.

I can't believe this change will make an awful lot of difference in the long run. Ultimately, teams now know the benefit of how they're currently manipulating the airflow and will eventually find another way to produce the same/similar effect; yes, this makes it much much harder, but they'll still be pushing in the same development direction - with the goal of reproducing the same aerodynamic results - so I can't see how it will be much different for long.

I completely agree with Horner that these 2019 regs were rushed through: they've got a chance to do a complete overhaul of the entire aerodynamic concept in 2021 - at which point they could conceivably go completely wingless/ground effect/fan/whatever - but that kind of thing requires a massive amount of research and preparation; this 2019 change is just slapping on a band-aid in the meantime and for what? Of the 12 races in 2018, 6 were really good, 3 were alright, 3 were stinkers - I don't think that's a bad ratio.

I do agree that restrictive regulations are the cause of many of F1's problems though: be reducing the amount of avenues teams can explore, and stipulating that you have to do things in x way - rather than to produce y, testable, effect - you inevitably push development all into the same narrow directions, all of which are a bit more sensitive to disturbance.

PhillipM
317
Joined: Mon May 16, 2011 2:18 pm
Location: Over the road from Boothy...

Re: 2018 in-season testing thread

Post by PhillipM » Wed Aug 01, 2018 1:49 pm

Part of the problem is whatever small benefit to overtaking they get from reducing the outwash up front, will be completely negated and more by front wing and tyre damage becoing a massive factor again - the exact reason they were narrowed to start with.

digitalrurouni
19
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2016 5:50 pm

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W09 EQ Power+

Post by digitalrurouni » Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:46 pm

So George Russell just set the fastest lap at the Hungaroring during testing. Broke Giovanazzi's record. What I am not getting is that's quite the marked improvement from the lap times the factory drivers were trying to achieve a few days ago. Obviously they were not using the same tires. But I would assume track conditions are similar? It didn't get cold during the testing days did it? Does anyone know? Also if this thread is the wrong place to ask this question I apologize in advance!

Morteza
1888
User avatar
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 5:23 pm
Location: Bushehr, Iran

Re: 2018 in-season testing thread

Post by Morteza » Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:07 pm

Image
"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."~William Shakespeare

DVB
16
User avatar
Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2015 9:52 pm

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W09 EQ Power+

Post by DVB » Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:16 pm

digitalrurouni wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:46 pm
So George Russell just set the fastest lap at the Hungaroring during testing. Broke Giovanazzi's record. What I am not getting is that's quite the marked improvement from the lap times the factory drivers were trying to achieve a few days ago. Obviously they were not using the same tires. But I would assume track conditions are similar? It didn't get cold during the testing days did it? Does anyone know? Also if this thread is the wrong place to ask this question I apologize in advance!
Yes some extra details in this. I'll try to explain.

* No team showed true 1-lap pace during FP1, FP2 or FP3.
* During QF, rain washed all rubber off track, which was put on during FP1, FP2, FP3.
* More rubber from race and yesterday was put on track, which improves grip.
* During testing car is even more optimized and maybe new test parts give improved performance.
* Maybe the most important, they use the Hypersoft tire, where during the practices, QF and the race the Ultrasoft was the softest tire available.
Everybody is a Ferrari fan.

Just_a_fan
492
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: 2018 in-season testing thread

Post by Just_a_fan » Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:24 pm

So Russell has set the new unofficial track record now. Interesting that Kimi's best time is basically the same as his team mate yesterday. Did Ferrari drive to a delta or is it just a coincidence?
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

netoperek
44
Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2010 10:06 pm

Re: 2018 in-season testing thread

Post by netoperek » Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:26 pm

Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:24 pm
So Russell has set the new unofficial track record now. Interesting that Kimi's best time is basically the same as his team mate yesterday. Did Ferrari drive to a delta or is it just a coincidence?
Or maybe they both got very close to the limit