Silly Season 2018/2019

[alexx_88]

Rosberg is an amazing driver, my points was just that he is worse than Ham and still got the title, thanks IMO to some luck with Ham reliability.

I just think it is a fair statement to say that you are closer to win a WDC being the n.2 in the dominant team (just need some bad luck/mistakes/crashes on the other seat) than if you are in a McLaren Renault. McLaren doesn't seem to be able to produce a good midfield chassis for years now (4/5?) neither will it be easy to win against the Renault team with their own engine.

In 5-10 years, who has more chance to win, Force India (or whatever will be called) or McLaren?

That's what I was trying to say, thanks ivanlesk! Then I got sidetracked into the whole no 2 thing. Mclaren for Perez would be a lateral move with some perspective of going up. Maybe FI is not the best example as we don't know what Stroll's intentions are for the team (he's a real petrolhead so who's to say he won't try to mirror RB's achievements?), but HAAS is a better example. If I were Kmag or Grosjean I'd absolutely leave HAAS for Mclaren. At least with Mclaren is working towards something, there's a goal, HAAS doesn't have any higher ambitions than what they're doing now. They don't plan to fight for championships in the next few years.

I didn't say it's bad to be a number 2 driver, but it depends on what your objective for the career is. I'd be more motivated by being in a close fight with my teammate than being obliterated week after week by my "larger than life" teammate and asked to act as a rear-gunner for what will be considered the highlight of my career. Comes down to personal preference I guess. I also think Perez and Hulkenberg will be better regarded after they're done than Bottas.

[Big Mangalhit]

Rosberg is an amazing driver, my points was just that he is worse than Ham and still got the title, thanks IMO to some luck with Ham reliability.

I just think it is a fair statement to say that you are closer to win a WDC being the n.2 in the dominant team (just need some bad luck/mistakes/crashes on the other seat) than if you are in a McLaren Renault. McLaren doesn't seem to be able to produce a good midfield chassis for years now (4/5?) neither will it be easy to win against the Renault team with their own engine.

In 5-10 years, who has more chance to win, Force India (or whatever will be called) or McLaren?

I think both have 0 tbh

[PlatinumZealot]

Exactly. Rosberg beat Hamilton on numerous occasions in qualifying too. He deserves full respect for that. Rosberg was way underrated. My guess he would give anyone on the grid a hard time, including Vettel and Alonso.

In the redbull domination era, one of the drivers touted Nico Rosberg the fastest German and not Vettel so that was interesting. Pretty sure in qualifying pace VET is on Ricciardo level ie. a little slower than Max.

[Zynerji]

Exactly. Rosberg beat Hamilton on numerous occasions in qualifying too. He deserves full respect for that. Rosberg was way underrated. My guess he would give anyone on the grid a hard time, including Vettel and Alonso.

In the redbull domination era, one of the drivers touted Nico Rosberg the fastest German and not Vettel so that was interesting. Pretty sure in qualifying pace VET is on Ricciardo level ie. a little slower than Max.

Didn't he have a ton of pole positions tho? Hard to say he doesn't have superb single lap pace. I even remember watching one of his mechanics say in the garage after a qualifying run "How does he DO that?!?!!"

[PlatinumZealot]

The drivers have an idea of the pecking order among themselves even though some of them will never admit their position in that hierarchy.

Guess who said this in 2013:

“In terms of pure speed, Nico Rosberg is the fastest German, but Sebastian is the more complete driver and a great champion.”

[ChrisF1]

Considering the intelligence on this board I am surprised that we're still having a conversation about Rosberg being close to Hamilton because he won a title.

You realise why he won it? Consistency.

Why was he able to win it consistently? Because the car was a class above third, and all of those times that Rosberg was half a second off pole didn't matter as he was still faster than the 3rd place car.

Go around 4-6 tenths off of Hamilton now and you'll be 4th, 5th maybe.

Rosberg had a major cushion that guaranteed a second place because their competitors weren't close enough. Bottaa doesn't have that cushion and when he's made a small error it's been more notable.

[Phil]

You make it sound as if Rosberg was consistently behind by 5 tenths. He wasnt. He was actually faster at times and got pole and absolutely deserved it. Yes, he struggled a bit in tricky conditions and also his race pace was usually a bit slower too, but not by much. Lewis definitely had to bring his A game to beat him.

[iotar__]

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13838 ... sso-return

Kvyat a candidate for Toro Rosso. Already mentioned here so nothing's shocking about it autosport . Red Bull turning sport into farce is a different story.

[Fulcrum]

Considering the intelligence on this board I am surprised that we're still having a conversation about Rosberg being close to Hamilton because he won a title.

You realise why he won it? Consistency.

Why was he able to win it consistently? Because the car was a class above third, and all of those times that Rosberg was half a second off pole didn't matter as he was still faster than the 3rd place car.

Go around 4-6 tenths off of Hamilton now and you'll be 4th, 5th maybe.

Rosberg had a major cushion that guaranteed a second place because their competitors weren't close enough. Bottaa doesn't have that cushion and when he's made a small error it's been more notable.

Just to establish some facts.

• Rosberg won 9 times from 21 races.

• Hamilton won 10 times from 21 races.

• If Hamilton had not retired in Malaysia the total would have been 11-9 in Hamilton's favour.

• Rosberg finished in front of Hamilton 9 times when both finished.

• Hamilton finished in front of Rosberg 10 times when both finished.

• Again, with respect to Malaysia, the numbers would have been 11-9 in Hamilton's favour without that retirement.

• Rosberg had 1 less retirement than Hamilton.

If Hamilton had not retired in Malaysia, and everything else had remained the same, Rosberg would have lost the WDC by about 20 points or so. I think most Rosberg fanboys recognize that he needed that little bit of good fortune to win, but that is no insult. Hamilton only needed to DNF once more than Rosberg to lose the WDC. I.e. Hamilton's margin of superiority over Rosberg in 2016 amounted to 1 DNF. That's a very fine margin.

How often was Rosberg 5 tenths off Hamilton's pace in 2016? Practically never. To suggest it was the status quo is pure fiction. The actual difference between the two in qualifying, when assessing those races where both qualified unhindered, was less than 2 tenths in Hamilton's favour. Hamilton's biggest margin throughout the year was 0.543 seconds, in Austria, under changeable conditions. Rosberg was much closer to Hamilton than you are imagining.

Yes, Rosberg was consistent - as if this is some sort of insult. He was consistently fast, practically all the time. He never qualified lower than 2nd throughout the year, finished in front of his teammate often enough for reliability to play the deciding factor in the outcome of the championship, and made few mistakes throughout the year.

He was also subjected to intense media scrutiny. The majority English press were against him, Bernie Ecclestone himself declared he wanted Hamilton to win, and one can imagine members of his own team would have far rather had less competition to manage.

So yes, well spotted. He was consistent. Consistently excellent.

[GrayGreat]

Considering the intelligence on this board I am surprised that we're still having a conversation about Rosberg being close to Hamilton because he won a title.

You realise why he won it? Consistency.

Why was he able to win it consistently? Because the car was a class above third, and all of those times that Rosberg was half a second off pole didn't matter as he was still faster than the 3rd place car.

Go around 4-6 tenths off of Hamilton now and you'll be 4th, 5th maybe.

Rosberg had a major cushion that guaranteed a second place because their competitors weren't close enough. Bottaa doesn't have that cushion and when he's made a small error it's been more notable.

Just to establish some facts.

• Rosberg won 9 times from 21 races.

• Hamilton won 10 times from 21 races.

• If Hamilton had not retired in Malaysia the total would have been 11-9 in Hamilton's favour.

• Rosberg finished in front of Hamilton 9 times when both finished.

• Hamilton finished in front of Rosberg 10 times when both finished.

• Again, with respect to Malaysia, the numbers would have been 11-9 in Hamilton's favour without that retirement.

• Rosberg had 1 less retirement than Hamilton.

If Hamilton had not retired in Malaysia, and everything else had remained the same, Rosberg would have lost the WDC by about 20 points or so. I think most Rosberg fanboys recognize that he needed that little bit of good fortune to win, but that is no insult. Hamilton only needed to DNF once more than Rosberg to lose the WDC. I.e. Hamilton's margin of superiority over Rosberg in 2016 amounted to 1 DNF. That's a very fine margin.

How often was Rosberg 5 tenths off Hamilton's pace in 2016? Practically never. To suggest it was the status quo is pure fiction. The actual difference between the two in qualifying, when assessing those races where both qualified unhindered, was less than 2 tenths in Hamilton's favour. Hamilton's biggest margin throughout the year was 0.543 seconds, in Austria, under changeable conditions. Rosberg was much closer to Hamilton than you are imagining.

Yes, Rosberg was consistent - as if this is some sort of insult. He was consistently fast, practically all the time. He never qualified lower than 2nd throughout the year, finished in front of his teammate often enough for reliability to play the deciding factor in the outcome of the championship, and made few mistakes throughout the year.

He was also subjected to intense media scrutiny. The majority English press were against him, Bernie Ecclestone himself declared he wanted Hamilton to win, and one can imagine members of his own team would have far rather had less competition to manage.

So yes, well spotted. He was consistent. Consistently excellent.

I agree, but it must be said that if Hamilton had not retired in Malaysia, Rosberg would have had a different mind set in the last races and probably would have won 1 or 2 more instead of being in cruise control to finish second in every race.

[Zynerji]

Plot twist:

If Vettel beats Hamilton to the championship this year, Hamilton retires and we see Ocon/Bottas at Mercedes in 2019.

The video of Hamilton and Button in the car ride interview earlier this year was telling when Button was pushing Hamilton to challenge Schumachers WDC record, and Hamilton saying he had no interest...

[Big Tea]

Plot twist:

If Vettel beats Hamilton to the championship this year, Hamilton retires and we see Ocon/Bottas at Mercedes in 2019.

The video of Hamilton and Button in the car ride interview earlier this year was telling when Button was pushing Hamilton to challenge Schumachers WDC record, and Hamilton saying he had no interest...

Right now, If I ran Mercedes team and Hamilton retired, next years team would be Bottas ans Kimi.
If the reports from sky that Ferrari are 'releasing' him are correct.

[Zynerji]

Plot twist:

If Vettel beats Hamilton to the championship this year, Hamilton retires and we see Ocon/Bottas at Mercedes in 2019.

The video of Hamilton and Button in the car ride interview earlier this year was telling when Button was pushing Hamilton to challenge Schumachers WDC record, and Hamilton saying he had no interest...

Right now, If I ran Mercedes team and Hamilton retired, next years team would be Bottas ans Kimi.
If the reports from sky that Ferrari are 'releasing' him are correct.

I'd personally take a young Ocon over an aged Raikkonen, and I've always liked Kimi...

[Fulcrum]

It seems like the only question remaining is whether Raikkonen will jump, or be pushed. The sharks (journalists) certainly smell blood.

[Phil]

AMuS reported prior to the race that Leclerc seat at Ferrari is a done deal. Apparently there is something that Sergio Marchionne had already decided before his death and that Ferrari wants (must?) to honour. However Kimi has a big following and is performing really well in the past few races. Adding to that, the new boss is close to Kimi. Meanwhile, Jean Todt’s son is managing Leclerc...