Silly Season 2018/2019

[jjn9128]

Sorry to repeat myself, but I saw nothing wrong with Kvyat, at least as good as Buemi and he was treated very badly. He has had far less crashes than Max and he gets praised for it.
I really can not understand why he is not in the STR. Unless ofourse it is his choice not to.

When he was sacked he cut all ties/had all ties cut to Red Bull, whereas Buemi stayed in the program as a simulator and test and development driver. I think Buemi and Vergne were the most harshly treated by Red Bull - Vergne was on a par with Ricciardo IMO, better in quali but worse on race-day (IIRC because he had more top-10 starts so was forced into crap strategies). Kvyat at least got a shot with RBR but couldn't make it work, either pressure or RBR were vocal about replacing him with Max, and his confidence from then on was shot.

Buemi and Vergne wouldn't exactly set the world alight as a pairing... nor would Buemi and Vandoorne, or Buemi and Hartley... in fact most of their options seem pretty uninspired.

[Big Tea]

Sorry to repeat myself, but I saw nothing wrong with Kvyat, at least as good as Buemi and he was treated very badly. He has had far less crashes than Max and he gets praised for it.
I really can not understand why he is not in the STR. Unless ofourse it is his choice not to.

When he was sacked he cut all ties/had all ties cut to Red Bull, whereas Buemi stayed in the program as a simulator and test and development driver. I think Buemi and Vergne were the most harshly treated by Red Bull - Vergne was on a par with Ricciardo IMO, better in quali but worse on race-day (IIRC because he had more top-10 starts so was forced into crap strategies). Kvyat at least got a shot with RBR but couldn't make it work, either pressure or RBR were vocal about replacing him with Max, and his confidence from then on was shot.

Buemi and Vergne wouldn't exactly set the world alight as a pairing... nor would Buemi and Vandoorne, or Buemi and Hartley... in fact most of their options seem pretty uninspired.

Which would probably be a good thing as far as Red Bull are concerned.
They do not want the 'other' team to be too close to the 'Boss' team, just be there to try things out and be ready to supply a driver or garage member if required.

[alexx_88]

To me it was a marketing attempt with Max as well. Max was the hype of the paddock. Red Bull saw $$$, so Kvyat got demoted.

Leaving aside what happened to Kvyat, I too think Max is the real deal. That seems to be the consensus in the paddock as well. Comfortably beats Ricciardo on pace every weekend now. That kind of domination over such a strong teammate shows supreme confidence and skill. He lacks patience, but if you put him in a car that's fast enough to win the championship, I really think he'll deliver.

[WaikeCU]

To me it was a marketing attempt with Max as well. Max was the hype of the paddock. Red Bull saw $$$, so Kvyat got demoted.

Leaving aside what happened to Kvyat, I too think Max is the real deal. That seems to be the consensus in the paddock as well. Comfortably beats Ricciardo on pace every weekend now. That kind of domination over such a strong teammate shows supreme confidence and skill. He lacks patience, but if you put him in a car that's fast enough to win the championship, I really think he'll deliver.

Yes, but then he still needs to deliver consistently and not make silly, unnecessary mistakes. He's indeed one of the better ones during wheel to wheel action, but there's a line drivers know they can't get across, but Max doesn't always know that atm. He needs to show more he can learn from his mistakes in the past. At the moment it's not sufficient and it can be a reason why teams won't look at him and take someone else instead, simply because others deliver without any fuss.

[langedweil]

Aside of Max .. I often like to think how ham and vet would race if they lack constantly 50/70 HP every whole season ..
Would they drive just by the rules for 5th or 6th and pick up the occassional scraps that are left behind on the table by 1/2/3/4, or would they as well start (over)compensating and use any, even minimal, opportunity (and fail from time to time) being the competitive drivers they are ?
Important part of their successes was certainly to be lucky to be in the right place at the right time; with that same luck quite a few others would have made it to where they’re now (4wdc’s). Both have at least 3 wdc’s because of an out-of-this-world performing car. Which doesn’t take away their racecraft at all, but it doesn’t make other drivers worse per definition either.

I personally like the talented guys that try every little different thing within or even outside the rulebook to gain that little extra, and if it doesn’t work out as planned, than at least it was tried. It is that what made the Niki’s, James’s, Gilles’, Ayrton’s, Michael’s and perhaps even Lewis’s stand out. Whether Max will get there no one can’t tell yet (as I’m not even sure about Lewis at this point), because like a whole lot other guys in the past he has the potential craft, but that alone will just not be enough.

[ESPImperium]

I suspect the STR-Honda package will be really good, i suspect the integrated rear end and them using more non listed parts from Red Bull will see them as good as Haas, as i think its now going to be closer and closer in the mid pack as i think its now key for manufacturers to have a second team close to the front than in previous years. Reason for this, it makes the race much more difficult for hard charging drivers on a recovery drive ala Vettel recently. And i also think that the teams that are running in this ever tighter-ever closer mid pack that need a pair drivers fast enough to get the best out of it, and for most of the race weekend, a Grosjean and a Magnussen to take the Haas model again.

[Phil]

So apparently, according to AMuS; The FOM is very much involved in what happens over at Force-India.

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... hrer-ocon/

In short:

- Mercedes are blocking Stroll from moving Lance into Force-India until Ocon is accounted for
- Ocon was set to go to McLaren...
- but McLaren and Renault are concerned over Force-India becoming Mercedes B team...
- ...that would lead to 3 super-teams dictating terms in F1, presumably Mercedes, Ferrari and RB-Honda.
- McLaren also wanted Ocon beyond 2019, which Mercedes denied because they want the option to sign him themselves for 2020.
- McLaren put pressure on Mercedes by making an offer for Perez...
- ...who gets first choice at Force-India because he triggered the insolvency and he wants to stay at Force-India
- then McLaren decided to sign Noris instead
- Meanwhile, Alonso has an option to come back to McLaren in 2020, while Sainz is on a two year deal. So it would be Nando's seat if Alonso comes back.
- Ocon could end up at Williams, which may not be the best seat, but better one than none...
- meanwhile, the chance to see Kubica in F1 are becoming slimmer. If he were to race, he would have to pay a 7 digit figure to his insurance. This however is not attractive if he only gets to race a few races till years end...
- meanwhile at Sauber, assuming Leclerc goes to Ferrari, Vasseur wants Vandorne, but the Sweedish backers want to retain Ericsson, while Alfa wants Giovinazzi.
- Williams looks like Sirotkin is steady thanks to his backers, so the run for the second seat will be probably Ocon for next year. George Russel on the other hand, well, no room for him at the moment...
- Torro-Rosso doesn't want a Mercedes driver, so it's anyones guess who will be there. Hartley, Kvyat, Verge, Buemi? (My guess would be Kvyat and Buemi).

So looks like Stroll may not end up as quickly as thought at Force-India with Mercedes blocking it...

[Ground Effect]

So apparently, according to AMuS; The FIA is very much involved in what happens over at Force-India.

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... hrer-ocon/

In short:

- Mercedes are blocking Stroll from moving Lance into Force-India until Ocon is accounted for
- Ocon was set to go to McLaren...
- but McLaren and Renault are concerned over Force-India becoming Mercedes B team...
- ...that would lead to 3 super-teams dictating terms in F1, presumably Mercedes, Ferrari and RB-Honda.
- McLaren also wanted Ocon beyond 2019, which Mercedes denied because they want the option to sign him themselves for 2020.
- McLaren put pressure on Mercedes by making an offer for Perez...
- ...who gets first choice at Force-India because he triggered the insolvency and he wants to stay at Force-India
- then McLaren decided to sign Noris instead
- Meanwhile, Alonso has an option to come back to McLaren in 2020, while Sainz is on a two year deal. So it would be Nando's seat if Alonso comes back.
- Ocon could end up at Williams, which may not be the best seat, but better one than none...
- meanwhile, the chance to see Kubica in F1 are becoming slimmer. If he were to race, he would have to pay a 7 digit figure to his insurance. This however is not attractive if he only gets to race a few races till years end...
- meanwhile at Sauber, assuming Leclerc goes to Ferrari, Vasseur wants Vandorne, but the Sweedish backers want to retain Ericsson, while Alfa wants Giovinazzi.
- Williams looks like Sirotkin is steady thanks to his backers, so the run for the second seat will be probably Ocon for next year. George Russel on the other hand, well, no room for him at the moment...
- Torro-Rosso doesn't want a Mercedes driver, so it's anyones guess who will be there. Hartley, Kvyat, Verge, Buemi? (My guess would be Kvyat and Buemi).

So looks like Stroll may not end up as quickly as thought at Force-India with Mercedes blocking it...

I think Mercedes should have let Ocon go to Mclaren for 2019-2020, for at least the sake of his career. As uninspiring as Bottas is, (personality-wise) there's no doubt he's a safe pair of hands, the fact that they have given him an option for 2020as well says it all, they intend to keep him. They would have had Ocon sorted for 2 years, maybe George Russell in Williams next season as well. He's looking good for the F2 title, what happens next? They won't be in DTM next year, their Formula E kicks of 2019-2020 season. They could have had both drivers taken care of, before the reset of 2021.

[ScottB]

Worst case is a year out for Ocon as third driver, replacing Bottas in 2020 I guess.

[PlatinumZealot]

Good bye Ocon and Kubica!!

[Jolle]

I guess Mercedes will have to put of some large amount of cash to buy Ocon a seat at Williams. I think Clair is playing a slow game not to give away her available seats too soon.

[Raleigh]

Looking at the available seats on the grid,

- Haas have not confirmed either driver for 2019, and have made it clear they are considering options including non-Ferrari drivers.
- Toro Rosso have both seats open, however not interested in Mercedes drivers.
- Sauber has a seat open but unlikely to take a Mercedes driver over Ferrari drivers and free agents like Vandoorne.
- Williams has both seats open but will be looking for money.

The most likely option for Ocon/Russell is definitely Toto Wolff buying seats at Williams, perhaps with technical assistance and discounted engine supply rather than cash. Toro Rosso would snap up either driver, but only on a long term contract cutting ties to Mercedes so this is unlikely. Sauber is probably not going to happen because they have good options without Mercedes links, meanwhile the Haas seat is an outside possibility but look less likely since Grosjean turned his season around.

[iotar__]

Desperate seeking for storage for Ocon by Mercedes machine is as bad as Stroll reshuffling lineups midseason to waste second seat on his son. https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13855 ... on--horner They even put RB in the title . What else didin't happen today in the RB world Autosport?

I don't recall Wolff or Hamilton complaining when Wehlrein was taking someone else's place in F1 or when Stroll was at Williams. They wouldn't mind if it was Ocon and Stroll at FI forcing Perez out.

Out of the three dumbed down basics: Ocon hasn't got two at anywhere near top level: race pace, race craft and one is only OK: one lap speed (IMO temporarily).

[djos]

His main issue imo is he's too tall!

[Ground Effect]

Desperate seeking for storage for Ocon by Mercedes machine is as bad as Stroll reshuffling lineups midseason to waste second seat on his son. https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13855 ... on--horner They even put RB in the title . What else didin't happen today in the RB world Autosport?

I don't recall Wolff or Hamilton complaining when Wehlrein was taking someone else's place in F1 or when Stroll was at Williams. They wouldn't mind if it was Ocon and Stroll at FI forcing Perez out.

Out of the three dumbed down basics: Ocon hasn't got two at anywhere near top level: race pace, race craft and one is only OK: one lap speed (IMO temporarily).

I think Ocon is better than you're making him out to be. He was on Checo's pace from race one, they clashed a few times during races because they have similar pace. He didn't make high profile rookie errors like crashing out or taking others out. His main problem is his Mercedes links. Potentially, he'll be driving for the works team in 2021, so no rival wants to build him up, only to be used against them. I would call him the best young driver on the grid, bar none.