2018 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, 5-7 October

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Fulcrum
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Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, 5-7 October

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If Ferrari weren't certain about the rain, then why didn't they hedge strategy, and put one driver on dry tyres?

I guess they must have been certain. They were certainly wrong.

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Sieper
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Joined: 14 Mar 2017, 15:19

Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, 5-7 October

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They need both Vettel and Raikonnen in front of Hamilton for making steps in the WDC, so they took the gamble.

simieski
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Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, 5-7 October

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Fulcrum wrote:
06 Oct 2018, 11:28
If Ferrari weren't certain about the rain, then why didn't they hedge strategy, and put one driver on dry tyres?

I guess they must have been certain. They were certainly wrong.
Both Ferrari drivers still had the opportunity to put in a good run but both made mistakes.
Thank you to God for making me an Atheist - Ricky Gervais.

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MtthsMlw
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Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, 5-7 October

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Image

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Unc1eM0nty
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Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, 5-7 October

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LM10 wrote:
06 Oct 2018, 09:10
matt_b wrote:
06 Oct 2018, 09:05
Super lap from Lewis in those greasy conditions.
It was a lap in dry conditions. We know he’s the best, but please stop overhyping.
If it was dry why were Ferrari on inters ?

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MtthsMlw
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Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, 5-7 October

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Unc1eM0nty wrote:
06 Oct 2018, 11:55
LM10 wrote:
06 Oct 2018, 09:10
matt_b wrote:
06 Oct 2018, 09:05
Super lap from Lewis in those greasy conditions.
It was a lap in dry conditions. We know he’s the best, but please stop overhyping.
If it was dry why were Ferrari on inters ?
Because Ferrari.

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Sierra117
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Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, 5-7 October

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f1316 wrote:
06 Oct 2018, 10:43
Sierra117 wrote:
06 Oct 2018, 10:39
f1316 wrote:
06 Oct 2018, 10:29
I think what we’re seeing this year - and tbh the previous two - is that Ferrari’s revamped structure under Marchionne unlocked some great engineering talent in Maranello that had previously been overlooked by the influx of ‘name’ talent (Pat Fry, James Allison etc.) but that their track operations is still quite poor. Since 2016 - in which they should have won a couple of races - they’ve squandered countless chances and much more rarely capitalised on Mercedes off days.

I personally don’t think it’s a coincidence that this lines up exactly with the onboarding of Jock Clear - who is an example of the previous administrations’ strategy of poaching staff from other big teams and who has never previously occupied a position as senior as he has at Maranello - but whatever the reason, whilst they’ve now caught up in terms of building good cars/engines, there’s still a ways to go in the ops department.
The only real way is if the culture changes at Ferrari. I don't like to talk about a man who is no longer in this world, but speaking ill of your drivers the way Marchionne and Arrivabene did will never motivate anyone. At the end of the day, your drivers and team personnel are who carry out the actual operations, so making sure they are as motivated as possible is what it comes down to. Same way Firas Zahabi, trainer of George St. Pierre talks about making sure GSP feels on top of the world even if some of the training partners have been whispered to take it easy at the end of camp. All to make sure the confidence is high. We saw how sometime back James came on and apologised to Lewis for the strategy blunder. And today we saw Toto tell him "masterstroke". Humans are emotional at the every end and if they are happy with their environment and they see and hear that their bosses have faith in them, then that's what allows them to think and perform clearly.
Completely disagree.

Ferrari’s upsurge in form is a direct result of Marchionne’s approach - in which he recognised and nurtured internal talent - and to me there’s just an extra step they still need to make specifically in terms of strategy and track operations.
I was talking about the performance of the actual personnel on racedays not about the internal talent and engineering side. That's a whole different approach and clearly Ferrari have little to no issue there. But try it out, manage a sportsperson and say something to destroy his/her confidence and the results will show how that works out.
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Unc1eM0nty
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Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, 5-7 October

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MtthsMlw wrote:
06 Oct 2018, 11:56
Unc1eM0nty wrote:
06 Oct 2018, 11:55
LM10 wrote:
06 Oct 2018, 09:10


It was a lap in dry conditions. We know he’s the best, but please stop overhyping.
If it was dry why were Ferrari on inters ?
Because Ferrari.
Haha

As the saying goes, Hindsight is a marvelous thing

It was raining in places, looked liked it might rain some more, they threw the dice and lost.

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iotar__
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Joined: 28 Sep 2012, 12:31

Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, 5-7 October

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4 Kimi Räikkönen Ferrari 1:29.521
5 Romain Grosjean Haas Ferrari 1:29.761

A. Driver's circuit
B. Give the man a better car.
C. Softs in Q2
D. Formula 1 audience is not very knowledgeable. Nevermind the salesmen posing as journalists.

Oh yeah, Vettel and Ferrari :roll:. Who saw that coming for 4 seasons in a row.

Silent Storm
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Joined: 02 Feb 2015, 18:42
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, 5-7 October

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iotar__ wrote:
06 Oct 2018, 12:07
4 Kimi Räikkönen Ferrari 1:29.521
5 Romain Grosjean Haas Ferrari 1:29.761

A. Driver's circuit
B. Give the man a better car.
C. Softs in Q2
D. Formula 1 audience is not very knowledgeable. Nevermind the salesmen posing as journalists.

Oh yeah, Vettel and Ferrari :roll:. Who saw that coming for 4 seasons in a row.
On Kimi's lap the rear stepped out very badly, he controlled it and completed the lap. Hence the bad laptime.
We all know how slow Grosjean was with Kimi in the Lotus.
The ones with the least to say always want to be heard the most…

Silent Storm
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Joined: 02 Feb 2015, 18:42
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, 5-7 October

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f1316 wrote:
06 Oct 2018, 10:29
I think what we’re seeing this year - and tbh the previous two - is that Ferrari’s revamped structure under Marchionne unlocked some great engineering talent in Maranello that had previously been overlooked by the influx of ‘name’ talent (Pat Fry, James Allison etc.) but that their track operations is still quite poor. Since 2016 - in which they should have won a couple of races - they’ve squandered countless chances and much more rarely capitalised on Mercedes off days.

I personally don’t think it’s a coincidence that this lines up exactly with the onboarding of Jock Clear - who is an example of the previous administrations’ strategy of poaching staff from other big teams and who has never previously occupied a position as senior as he has at Maranello - but whatever the reason, whilst they’ve now caught up in terms of building good cars/engines, there’s still a ways to go in the ops department.
Ever since Ruth Buscombe left the team at the end of 2015, Ferrari's strategy has been very bad.
The ones with the least to say always want to be heard the most…

LM10
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Joined: 07 Mar 2018, 00:07

Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, 5-7 October

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Just_a_fan wrote:
06 Oct 2018, 10:42
LM10 wrote:
06 Oct 2018, 10:17
Just_a_fan wrote:
06 Oct 2018, 10:11

It was a perfectly valid question. If any baiting was intended, it was probably looking for Max to say something like "I'm going for the win, their battle is not my problem". :wink:
It was a totally dumb and needless question. 50 points of a gap. Verstappen can do whatever he wants. It won’t change anything in the current dynamics.
Er, no, but if it helps you feel like a victim, then ok.

If Max gets in to Lewis in T1/2 and they end up in the gravel, then Seb gains massively - potentially enough to get close enough in the points to put pressure on Lewis again.

That's what the "baiting question" was inferring. Max saw that coming and batted it away with his reply.
Even two DNF’s of Hamilton with 2 wins of Vettel at the same time would bring them both to equal points. With Hamilton in such a good form and Mercedes having the clearly dominant car right now, Hamilton and Mercedes would still end up winning both WDC and WCC.
So I don’t think there is a battle going on anymore. Mathematically yea, realistically less.

LM10
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Joined: 07 Mar 2018, 00:07

Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, 5-7 October

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Unc1eM0nty wrote:
06 Oct 2018, 11:55
LM10 wrote:
06 Oct 2018, 09:10
matt_b wrote:
06 Oct 2018, 09:05
Super lap from Lewis in those greasy conditions.
It was a lap in dry conditions. We know he’s the best, but please stop overhyping.
If it was dry why were Ferrari on inters ?
Because they weren’t sure about the track conditions and wanted to gamble. Which turned out to be the wrong decision, yet again.
Doesn’t change the fact that it was dry eventually. Otherwise a 1:27 would have not been possible.

Fulcrum
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Joined: 25 Aug 2014, 18:05

Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, 5-7 October

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simieski wrote:
06 Oct 2018, 11:41
Fulcrum wrote:
06 Oct 2018, 11:28
If Ferrari weren't certain about the rain, then why didn't they hedge strategy, and put one driver on dry tyres?

I guess they must have been certain. They were certainly wrong.
Both Ferrari drivers still had the opportunity to put in a good run but both made mistakes.
In more marginal conditions though.

My point was actually in relation to the fact that Ferrari could have mitigated their risk by splitting strategy.

They didn't need to send both cars out to learn that intermediates were the wrong choice. Kimi could have been 'sacrificed' with the inters. In the event that inters proved to be correct, they would have the capability of shuffling him behind Vettel during the course of the race anyway.

LM10
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Joined: 07 Mar 2018, 00:07

Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, 5-7 October

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djones wrote:
06 Oct 2018, 11:19
Hamiltons engine smoking a few times today. Add the oil leak and hesitations the last race and without knowing all the facts, if it was me I would put a fresh one in.
They would not go into the race with a smoking engine which should not smoke normally. So I guess it’s a controlled smoking. Whatever the reason is.

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