McLaren MCL33

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter does not belong here.
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charliesmithhd
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Re: McLaren MCL33

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M840TR wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:53 pm
GoranF1 wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:38 pm
Strangly Alonso said after the race there are updates coming in the next race.
Before the race he said no updates since BCN.
Probably something that can fit the new regs. Maybe even mechanical.
So small floor updates(near the rear tyres and maybe some bargeboard refinements?

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diffuser
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Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:55 pm
Location: Montreal

Re: McLaren MCL33

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M840TR wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:25 pm
charliesmithhd wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 4:24 pm
M840TR wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 4:11 pm


Can you share the source?
It was on ted's notebook. Apparently he asked Zak just before the race
Also showed a nice view of the engine. It's odd that Zak would give away such information though. Still delighted to hear they're making good progress for next year. 2019 can't come soon enough.

https://i.imgur.com/Lgh9BRr.jpg
What are they giving away...that they're moving stuff above the PU? Nothing really earth shattering in that.

M840TR
M840TR
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Re: McLaren MCL33

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diffuser wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:03 pm
M840TR wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:25 pm
charliesmithhd wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 4:24 pm


It was on ted's notebook. Apparently he asked Zak just before the race
Also showed a nice view of the engine. It's odd that Zak would give away such information though. Still delighted to hear they're making good progress for next year. 2019 can't come soon enough.

https://i.imgur.com/Lgh9BRr.jpg
What are they giving away...that they're moving stuff above the PU? Nothing really earth shattering in that.
Yeah but still unusual. Why give anything away for no reason.

M840TR
M840TR
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Re: McLaren MCL33

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charliesmithhd wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:59 pm
M840TR wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:53 pm
GoranF1 wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:38 pm
Strangly Alonso said after the race there are updates coming in the next race.
Before the race he said no updates since BCN.
Probably something that can fit the new regs. Maybe even mechanical.
So small floor updates(near the rear tyres and maybe some bargeboard refinements?
Unlikely. Both fit only current design language.

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charliesmithhd
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Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:53 pm

Re: McLaren MCL33

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M840TR wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:20 pm
charliesmithhd wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:59 pm
M840TR wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:53 pm


Probably something that can fit the new regs. Maybe even mechanical.
So small floor updates(near the rear tyres and maybe some bargeboard refinements?
Unlikely. Both fit only current design language.
What would they be then?

M840TR
M840TR
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Re: McLaren MCL33

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charliesmithhd wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:37 pm
M840TR wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:20 pm
charliesmithhd wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:59 pm


So small floor updates(near the rear tyres and maybe some bargeboard refinements?
Unlikely. Both fit only current design language.
What would they be then?
No idea. Maybe front suspension, rear wing; something like that.

f1rules
f1rules
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Location: Denmark

Re: McLaren MCL33

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I hope its a key development of some kind for next year, that they get to verify this year

Chicane
Chicane
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Re: McLaren MCL33

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Ted about his talk with Zak, 4:00

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6uzmjx
Quickshifter

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henry
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Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 7:49 pm
Location: England

Re: McLaren MCL33

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Jolle wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 2:55 pm
hollus wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 2:50 pm
OK, I gathered a bit more data on gearing. It is noisy, often from 2-3 data points.
		   Speeds at 11500 RPM
		   4th	 6th	8th
McLaren (ALO)      175	 242	316
Mercedes (HAM)     186	 256	322
Ferrari (VET)	   180	 248	320
Renault (HUL)	   191	 261	329
RedBull (RIC)		        333
So McLaren is geared shorter. Specially quite a lot shorter than the other Renault teams. Interestingly, only a little bit shorter than Ferrari, which considering the power shortage suggests that the gearing is still within an acceptable range. I don't think Ferrari got it very wrong, and this difference can account for what, 1 tenth a lap?
But, Both Ferrari and Mercedes use a much higher effective rev band, often in the 10500-11750 range, compared to 10300-11500 for Alonso.
Renault seems to be in between, like 10400-11600, and no data for Red Bull. Are their peak powers in different places? They use different fuel suppliers to Renault, don't they?

Summarizing.
McLaren is geared differently, significantly shorter, but not so much that the gears are causing their current place at the back of the grid, IMO. In fact, compared with Ferrari and Mercedes, considering their lower power and higher drag, they might be geared about perfect. The short gearing might be behind their utter inability to overtake, though, by costing extra top speed.
by definition all PU's peak at 10.500 where the max fuel flow starts, with a very flat power curve after that. More revs just add more friction and so a loss of power
When I generated a power curve for the Ferrari at Singapore, using data helpfully extracted from video by @mudflap, I found the power peak at around 11200rpm. Roughly mid way between 10500 and the shift pointvat 11800.
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timbo
timbo
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Re: McLaren MCL33

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Jolle wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 2:55 pm
by definition all PU's peak at 10.500 where the max fuel flow starts, with a very flat power curve after that. More revs just add more friction and so a loss of power
This is most definitely true for ICE but maybe MGU-H can affect peak power revs?

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diffuser
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Location: Montreal

Re: McLaren MCL33

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timbo wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:39 pm
Jolle wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 2:55 pm
by definition all PU's peak at 10.500 where the max fuel flow starts, with a very flat power curve after that. More revs just add more friction and so a loss of power
This is most definitely true for ICE but maybe MGU-H can affect peak power revs?
That is an old definision based on a PU using a max flow rate. It presumes they all generate the same power at the same richness. Which we have learned isn't true.

toraabe
toraabe
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Re: McLaren MCL33

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timbo wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:39 pm
Jolle wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 2:55 pm
by definition all PU's peak at 10.500 where the max fuel flow starts, with a very flat power curve after that. More revs just add more friction and so a loss of power
This is most definitely true for ICE but maybe MGU-H can affect peak power revs?
Red bull revs 10500 at around 300 km/h
I think it should have been 4-500 rpm more.

the EDGE
the EDGE
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Re: McLaren MCL33

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** FUN FACT**

McLaren claim not to have upgraded their car since Barcelona, yet there is 150 pages worth of discussion on here about the MCL33, more than any other current car

that's 15 more than than the next most discussed, Ferrari & 138 pages more than HASS :lol: :lol: :lol:

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charliesmithhd
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Re: McLaren MCL33

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the EDGE wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:42 pm
** FUN FACT**

McLaren claim not to have upgraded their car since Barcelona, yet there is 150 pages worth of discussion on here about the MCL33, more than any other current car

that's 15 more than than the next most discussed, Ferrari & 138 pages more than HASS :lol: :lol: :lol:
They’ve brought updates which haven’t worked...

M840TR
M840TR
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Re: McLaren MCL33

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charliesmithhd wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:16 pm
the EDGE wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:42 pm
** FUN FACT**

McLaren claim not to have upgraded their car since Barcelona, yet there is 150 pages worth of discussion on here about the MCL33, more than any other current car

that's 15 more than than the next most discussed, Ferrari & 138 pages more than HASS :lol: :lol: :lol:
They’ve brought updates which haven’t worked...
Only few. When Alonso says upgrades don't work it's usually the case others are bringing bigger ones or their's are minor so the performance gap doesn't change