2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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Godius
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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Diesel wrote:
12 Nov 2018, 02:55
https://i.imgur.com/ki3pdby.png

Where is Ocon meant to go from here? That video tells all really, Ocon was massively faster, Max just turned across him like he wasn't there. If lapped cars aren't allowed to overtake maybe they should just retire?
What is there not to understand? Ocon is not fully alongside Verstappen going into the corner (eli5: max was in front). Which means that Verstappen has 100% right of the racing line. This is also acknowledged by the stewards, they handed Ocon a 10 sec stop and go penalty for it.

cooken
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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Oof. Massively clumsy by both.
Ocon probably shouldn't have got involved, but he also shouldn't have to sacrifice his own race just because he comes out behind a leader who is slower.

But...regardless of what feels right or wrong, it is ultimately the written rules that govern such instances, and per those rules I don't understand how Ocon gets a penalty. If the stewards decision was really "he couldn't make it stick in T1 so should have given way into T2 because it was the leader", well where do the rules say anything about that?? Only thing I can figure is that as soon as Ocon gets his nose ahead into T1, he immediately becomes a backmarker and is now subject to blue flags again and not allowed to impede. Tough situation, just super awkward.

Ultimately though...if Verstappen let's him past he still easily wins the race. So from that perspective he should only be blaming himself. The best thing anyone can do in a bad situation is focus on their own portion of responsibility, which is difficult to do but is the best thing for warding off bitterness and anger.

foxmulder_ms
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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Godius wrote:
12 Nov 2018, 03:17
Diesel wrote:
12 Nov 2018, 02:55
https://i.imgur.com/ki3pdby.png

Where is Ocon meant to go from here? That video tells all really, Ocon was massively faster, Max just turned across him like he wasn't there. If lapped cars aren't allowed to overtake maybe they should just retire?
What is there not to understand? Ocon is not fully alongside Verstappen going into the corner (eli5: max was in front). Which means that Verstappen has 100% right of the racing line. This is also acknowledged by the stewards, they handed Ocon a 10 sec stop and go penalty for it.
That is simply not true man. He has to give him room because Ocon is inside and next to him. One car space that simple. He is in contention for the corner. Ves can not claim the racing line like that. Stewards decision is a fiasco. You can find 200 examples of similar passes at that corner. It is seriously a joke. Ves is the crazy one trying to defend a backmarker. Ocon is right trying to pass Ves because he is losing time to his rivals.

foxmulder_ms
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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Oh by the way, congrads to Merc :D It is the *5TH* title back to back.!

also, did Rai outscore Vettel since Monza?
Last edited by foxmulder_ms on 12 Nov 2018, 03:31, edited 1 time in total.

cooken
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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Godius wrote:
12 Nov 2018, 03:17
Diesel wrote:
12 Nov 2018, 02:55
https://i.imgur.com/ki3pdby.png
Ocon is not fully alongside Verstappen going into the corner (eli5: max was in front). Which means that Verstappen has 100% right of the racing line.
This is objectively false. The rules state that if you have a "significant portion" alongside, then the car ahead has to leave room. Significant portion has also been defined as being front wing ahead of rear tires. Looking at the photo, Ocon definitely has a significant portion alongside, and therefore Max owes him room per the rules.

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dans79
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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I get the feeling there is more to come on this!

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Dazed1
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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Verstappen's thinking?? "This guy probably won't have a ride next year and is a lap down, has nothing to lose and is faster than me right now, I think I will chop his nose off in the corner!"

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Godius
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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cooken wrote:
12 Nov 2018, 03:31
Godius wrote:
12 Nov 2018, 03:17
Diesel wrote:
12 Nov 2018, 02:55
https://i.imgur.com/ki3pdby.png
Ocon is not fully alongside Verstappen going into the corner (eli5: max was in front). Which means that Verstappen has 100% right of the racing line.
This is objectively false. The rules state that if you have a "significant portion" alongside, then the car ahead has to leave room. Significant portion has also been defined as being front wing ahead of rear tires. Looking at the photo, Ocon definitely has a significant portion alongside, and therefore Max owes him room per the rules.
No 100% false. The rule that you are stating counts for either the straight or a braking area. Senna s is not a straight and not a braking area. Therefore Ocon is completely at fault by the rules. The stewards are not morons like you are suggesting.
Last edited by Godius on 12 Nov 2018, 03:56, edited 2 times in total.

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ringo
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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Verstappen is a mad man, and Horner is feeding the monster. I think he is a redbull experiment.
Nontheless Max is showing that redbull are to be taken very seriously this year, the car has been the best car in the past 3 races with maybe the worst engine.. Tyre management, braking stability, traction has made them very formidable.
Max can fight for the championship next year if the Honda engine is good enough to put him on the front row frequently.
His only enemy is himself. He has a lot to learn about racing.
Anyhow, good race from Hamilton. He did well to manage the tyres and the engine and find so much pace against the rebdull. When i saw Bottas got overtaken, i thought hamilton would be next in a few laps, but Lewis had the pace to delay the overtake till after the pitstops. Good win. He managed to win in the 3rd fastest car today. Max binned it.
Vettel nowhere to be seen today, i guess because of car problems.
For Sure!!

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dans79
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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ringo wrote:
12 Nov 2018, 03:53
Max can fight for the championship next year if the Honda engine is good enough to put him on the front row frequently.
His only enemy is himself. He has a lot to learn about racing.
I get the feeling Honda's reliability will take a down turn next year when Newey tries the shrink wrap their PU.
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zeph
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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dans79 wrote:
12 Nov 2018, 03:36
I get the feeling there is more to come on this!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Av1dH_ik8EU
Verstappen is an entitled little brat. Without Ricciardo there to keep him honest, I fear he will go full-on diva mode next season.

My best guess is he will cut somebody off one too many times and ruin his own chances for a victory or even the WDC.

foxmulder_ms
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Joined: 10 Feb 2011, 20:36

Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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Godius wrote:
12 Nov 2018, 03:47
cooken wrote:
12 Nov 2018, 03:31
Godius wrote:
12 Nov 2018, 03:17

Ocon is not fully alongside Verstappen going into the corner (eli5: max was in front). Which means that Verstappen has 100% right of the racing line.
This is objectively false. The rules state that if you have a "significant portion" alongside, then the car ahead has to leave room. Significant portion has also been defined as being front wing ahead of rear tires. Looking at the photo, Ocon definitely has a significant portion alongside, and therefore Max owes him room per the rules.
No 100% false. The rule that you are stating counts for either the straight or a braking area. Senna s is not a straight and not a braking area. Therefore Ocon is completely at fault by the rules. The stewards are not morons like you are suggesting.

I want a poster of this :) fake-rule of the year :P

cooken
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Joined: 02 Apr 2013, 01:57

Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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foxmulder_ms wrote:
12 Nov 2018, 04:37
Godius wrote:
12 Nov 2018, 03:47
cooken wrote:
12 Nov 2018, 03:31


This is objectively false. The rules state that if you have a "significant portion" alongside, then the car ahead has to leave room. Significant portion has also been defined as being front wing ahead of rear tires. Looking at the photo, Ocon definitely has a significant portion alongside, and therefore Max owes him room per the rules.
No 100% false. The rule that you are stating counts for either the straight or a braking area. Senna s is not a straight and not a braking area. Therefore Ocon is completely at fault by the rules. The stewards are not morons like you are suggesting.

I want a poster of this :) fake-rule of the year :P
Yea I have yet to come across said rule as well.

Godius can you please clarify which article addresses this?

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ispano6
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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Ocon tangles a lot with others, his driving is immature, hence why he has no drive next year. He's now just taking out his frustration. He doesn't realize when it's him who's supposed to back down

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dans79
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Location: USA

Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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ispano6 wrote:
12 Nov 2018, 05:00
Ocon tangles a lot with others, his driving is immature, hence why he has no drive next year. He's now just taking out his frustration. He doesn't realize when it's him who's supposed to back down
Lol, this is the most absurd thing I've read here in quite a while!
Last edited by dans79 on 12 Nov 2018, 06:40, edited 1 time in total.
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