2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

[Fulcrum]

Some people in this thread are critical of Verstappen because he drives with little to no regard for anyone but himself. He did quite well the last couple of races but this race is simply the latest in a string of controversies involving said driver, the most recent being only 3 races ago in Japan. Then there are a couple of Dutch internet trolls throwing fuel to the fire, but don't worry there are some sensible people too.

An alternative interpretation.

[djos]

Fantastic race, I really enjoyed it!

Despite being critical of Max being frequently impatient and or fool-hardy in the past, that move by Ocon at T2 was just blatantly stupid! Max was the race leader and Ocon should have tucked back in behind Max as soon as his T1 overtake attempt failed - to try and race the Race leader when he was 2 laps down is frankly unforgivable.

I feel genuinely sorry for Max and in his position I would have wanted to let my fists do some talking too!

[djos]

Honestly, can anybody watch Ocon's onboard and tell me what he does wrong? I've been watching it over and over again and it all looks clean and above the board to me. Yesterday I thought they were both to blame, but I just can't see what Ocon did wrong here:
https://streamable.com/0bynn

Simple, despite being 2 laps down, he tried to race the Race leader - it's an open and shut case.

[Sierra117]

What was the gap to Max when he exited the pits (which was after the second DRS zone so Max had most of a lap to pull away at '2-3 seconds a lap')? It's difficult to tell using the video but I believe it was more than a second at the end of S2 of that first lap. However, it's probably irrelevant as...How much faster do you need to be to maintain position within a second despite the turbulent air? Does DRS make you a second faster a lap? The Red Bull was clearly faster than the Ferrari yet how long was Ricciardo unable to get alongside Raikkonen? Bear in mind that Ocon didn't start pushing until he'd radioed the pitlane and received clearance to unlap himself.

Lap pace relative to overall race pace is irrelevant. At the point he exited the pits Ocon was using fresh super softs (which I don't think he'd had access to before) and he was driving a car that was at it's lightest so far. After the crash his car was damaged. Of course, he was going faster in the two laps leading up to the incident.

Hamilton was 2 seconds behind Max. Ocon came in between them a little closer to Max than Ham, you do the math. So you are just making things up...

I don't want to believe in the conspiracy, but I just learned that Ocon's pitstop took just long enough (lot slower than normal) to come up exactly after Max

After Max ? He came out the pits in front of Max.

And he also made sure to let Max by!

[Sierra117]

Anyone else hell bent on father idioms?[/i]

You seem to be taking this semi personally Turbo.

Oh sure, people might find out the secret I am Verstappen's half brother .
(#sarcasm)

THE PLOT THICKENS

[Michiba]

Interesting that he is on the side of the stewards in this incident.

Made me think about what Ocon could have replied to him at the weigh-in. I would speculate that Max told Ocon that he is wrong since he got the penalty from the stewards. To which Ocons reply was 'They're killing racing... honestly'.

[bill shoe]

More evidence against the "Ocon was wild/crazy/out-of-control" meme. He phoned ahead for team permission to unlap himself.

Force India team principal Otmar Szafnauer:

Esteban came on the radio and said ‘can I un-lap myself because I am quicker’ and we said yes go ahead. That’s it.

Link-
https://racer.com/2018/11/12/mercedes-f ... m-of-ocon/

FI ain't considered to have a pit wall of stoopid people. Link also has some typical Helmut Marko claims, plus a bit more info on Ocon's overall race strategy and how unlapping himself helped that strategy.

Marko also implied that Ocon has a Mercedes-funded drive for 2020, and Toto Wolff's response had a distinct lack of refuting that assertion. So maybe losing Ocon is just temporary for 2019?

[DutchDopey]

After Max ? He came out the pits in front of Max.

Lol, you think Max should have went full on the breaks

Max now in an interview said it wasn’t his intention to push Ocon. But the first thing Ocon said when he saw Max was ‘I was faster’ with a big smile. And that made him push him.

Now this contradicts what Max said when he was still in the car. But if I see the body language in the footage, I actually think Max wasn’t going for a fight. When somebody is going to attack that looks a lot different, so I believe Max. But it is still stupid to let you provoke yourself.

[Restomaniac]

@phil,

the thing is simple.

Ocon was FIGHTING max to unlap himself from 2 laps. that is just complete insanity.
It doesn't matter if he could unlap himself, whether he was fighter, by a margin or by a load.

he FOUGHT Max, and that is unacceptable for a backmarker.
he had NO fight with Max, but made it into one.

If he had to fight max, he wasn't fast enough to overtake him. it was not for position.

the backmarkers always complain how they need to move aside and endanger their own position by doing so,
instead, what does he think now? that a P1 driver needs to move aside for a p18 driver? how would that affect Max' race?!
it's total insanity!

furthermore, Ocon's dive into the first corner was really over the top. He carried way too much speed into that corner, took it wide, then did not budge whilst
it was not for position at all! even IF max would have left him space (which he did not think he should because any driver with IQ more than two fingers, would have
not sent one inside), then in the corner following turn 2 would have seen him on the outside again and not being able to pass max.

it is total madness what ocon did, but it's worse that he blames Max immediately after that with his arrogant and stupid answer on how it everybody could see what happened,
like he has no blame, then gets penalized rightfully so, also indicated by Whiting, and still maintains that he is innocent and Max is the blame.
You can see in the video how Ocon's attitude is towards Max: provocatively arrogant and chidish.

No, max should not have pushed him, but Ocon pushed max first, just not by hands. Matter of fact, Ocon actually HIT max, in the friggin race, as good as a direct blow to the head.

Ocon was frustrated with not getting a drive next year, AND had a lousy race which he had only himself to blame for, and then in all frustration takes on a battle with Max.
Not even realizing that he might just have thrown in his own windows.

Taking a risk in a p18 position as a backmarker, getting unneccesary risks AND then a penalty AND car damage, AND damaging reputation as a Mercedes-leased driver, just wow.
I sincerely hope Ocon won't get that Williams drive next year.

He's been tangled with Perez constantly before and now manages to even tangle with a race winner in the most absolutely retarded way.
Hope he'll end up in Formula E and never again in F1.

May Russell @ Williams 2018 be like LeClerc at Sauber this year. Ocon will be swiftly forgotten.

It takes 2 to tango. Why did the race leader feel the need to fight a back marker who was faster at that point? Why not just let him go?
A point that that a 5 time WDC, who holds a whole host of records and will be the 2nd most experienced driver in the grid next year was trying to explain to Verstappen.

[DutchDopey]

It takes 2 to tango. Why did the race leader feel the need to fight a back marker who was faster at that point? Why not just let him go?
A point that that a 5 time WDC, who holds a whole host of records was trying to explain to Verstappen.

But that 5 time WDC was right behind Max, if Ocon would have slowed Max down it would make Max a target for Hamilton...

[Restomaniac]

It takes 2 to tango. Why did the race leader feel the need to fight a back marker who was faster at that point? Why not just let him go?
A point that that a 5 time WDC, who holds a whole host of records was trying to explain to Verstappen.

But that 5 time WDC was right behind Max, if Ocon would have slowed Max down it would make Max a target for Hamilton...

No it wouldn’t. Verstappen was clearly driving to a delta.
Can we stop the pretence that Verstappen letting Ocon by would have effected his race compared to a Hamilton who we now know had a turned down PU due to high engine temps. It’s a false narrative.
Also Verstappen then gets DRS from Ocon anyway.

[NathanOlder]

After Max ? He came out the pits in front of Max.

Lol, you think Max should have went full on the breaks

You said he came out the pits after Max , now maybe English is not your first language but what you said would generally mean he was behind Max when he exited the pits. This is 100% , like most of your comments. So i was just pointing out you were wrong, and like most people just talking rubbish and living on another planet , you avoid the comment by talking rubbish.

I have now realised my mistake and will add you to my block list, I'm probably a little late in doing this, as I expect everyone else has probably done this already. Good day to you Sir.

[DutchDopey]

It takes 2 to tango. Why did the race leader feel the need to fight a back marker who was faster at that point? Why not just let him go?
A point that that a 5 time WDC, who holds a whole host of records was trying to explain to Verstappen.

But that 5 time WDC was right behind Max, if Ocon would have slowed Max down it would make Max a target for Hamilton...

No it wouldn’t. Verstappen was clearly driving to a delta.
Can we stop the pretence that Verstappen letting Ocon by would have effected his race compared to a Hamilton who we now know had a turned down PU due to high engine temps. It’s a false narrative.
Also Verstappen then gets DRS from Ocon anyway.

So if that is the case (which are all assumptions, including my position), the DRS would have enabled Max to pass Ocon again. Less reason for Ocon to pass Max. Apart from fighting Max which was totally not done and Ocon is punished for.

[DutchDopey]

After Max ? He came out the pits in front of Max.

Lol, you think Max should have went full on the breaks

You said he came out the pits after Max , now maybe English is not your first language but what you said would generally mean he was behind Max when he exited the pits. This is 100% , like most of your comments. So i was just pointing out you were wrong, and like most people just talking rubbish and living on another planet , you avoid the comment by talking rubbish.

I have now realised my mistake and will add you to my block list, I'm probably a little late in doing this, as I expect everyone else has probably done this already. Good day to you Sir.

But effectively Max came ahead after the pitstop, what is rubbish about that? I think it is wise for you to block me, I really don't understand how my comments can upset you, but if they do for whatever reason then you should block me.

[turbof1]

You guys know you'll never agree on this right? We have probably by now all thrown all the relevant arguments on the table several times by now.

It's up to the FIA to bring clarity in this. Which rules apply and which don't. What I gathered from Whiting's opinion is that in his eyes it should happen completely on a straight. Well, time for him to bring that to written regulations.