Mercedes AMG F1 W09 EQ Power+

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toraabe
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W09 EQ Power+

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Now when there is only one race left and nothing to race for, they will run them, Ferrari will protest and case will be closed. And I am sure they will get to new engines just for this race. Like Hamilton did in Brazil last year.

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subcritical71
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W09 EQ Power+

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toraabe wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:40 pm
Now when there is only one race left and nothing to race for, they will run them, Ferrari will protest and case will be closed. And I am sure they will get to new engines just for this race. Like Hamilton did in Brazil last year.
Maybe put some developments for next year through an on track test now that both championships are wrapped up. Also makes sense from the POV that HAM was on the verge of engine failure in Brazil. But I could see them saving the wheel spacers in a race for next year. No reason to expose what they are up to at the last race.

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GPR-A
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W09 EQ Power+

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subcritical71 wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:58 pm
toraabe wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:40 pm
Now when there is only one race left and nothing to race for, they will run them, Ferrari will protest and case will be closed. And I am sure they will get to new engines just for this race. Like Hamilton did in Brazil last year.
Maybe put some developments for next year through an on track test now that both championships are wrapped up. Also makes sense from the POV that HAM was on the verge of engine failure in Brazil. But I could see them saving the wheel spacers in a race for next year. No reason to expose what they are up to at the last race.
Anything Aero, traditionally Mercedes doesn't show it in end of season testing. They might try a lot of mechanical stuff for the Abu Dhabi race and the subsequent test. They have pretty good CFD and Wind Tunnel correlation which is enough for them to do the aero tests and we will only see their new aero bits in the Winter Testing.

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Mattchu
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W09 EQ Power+

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I also think in this kind of situation common sense comes into play a fair bit. Team A may have something on the car which team B thinks might be illegal [lets say not covered in the regs] or may be used for something other than what its primary purpose is.
The FIA will go to the team and tell them of their concerns [which may have been raised by either the technical commitee or another team].
As far as I can see team A now has 2 choices, remove/modify the part[s] in question or continue to use them and possibly be subject to an official protest from another team whereby several outcomes are possible.

Earlier examples would be Ferraris winglets on the halo [removed], or Haas` tea tray, not removed, protested, disqualified.

From what iv`e read about Hamiltons engine, Mercedes are saying something about the exhaust and the temps being sky high. I can see him [possibly both cars] taking a brand new unit for Abu Dhabi and running it near full beans for th whole race :)

PhillipM
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W09 EQ Power+

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henry wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:32 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:44 pm
PhillipM wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:22 pm
Scrutineering is not a declaration of legality, it's just declaration that the scrutineers are happy that is appears to conform to the rules and they're happy that it's safe to compete.
The car is checked by the scrutineers. If they find anything that is against the rules, they refuse to allow the car to race. If they allow the car to race then they consider it complies with the rules. Ergo, it is legal.

Not quite. The Scrutineers are the Police not the Judiciary. If they find something wrong they report it to the Stewards and they, the Stewards, decide on legality and permission to race.

On safety issues the Scrutineers may be judge and jury, I’m not sure on that.
Exactly, scrutineers cannot and do not check every aspect of a car for legality, they check easy and obvious things and they check that they're happy that the car is safe to race. An illegal car may race even after scrutineering - it's the job of the organising body and competitors to protest that for further investigation if they believe it to be so.
This is the case throughout the vast majority of motorsport, anyone who races will tell you scrutineering does not mean a car is legal to race, only that they are happy for it to do so.

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ringo
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W09 EQ Power+

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I think the wheel rim situation is being over complicated here on the forum. Mercedes aren't using them because the rims aren't needed for some tracks. They will be used on tracks where they are needed.
These rims are just the same as bigger brake ducks, or sidepod openings; they all control temperature in some way and are applied as needed.
I think what mercedes does is do some runs in practice and observe the tyre wear and behavior then determine if these wheels are need to manage the tyre temperatures with a particular setup. So far they haven't been need in the past 3 grand prix. The races we have seen so far without the rims have been a case where the tyres have not been switched on, or where the car has had no problems whatsoever with the tyres. The rims may make it worse for the tyres to be switched on, so in that case for that track you wouldnt want to use them.
If the rims provide cooling, you use them on tracks that are rear limited, or overheat the rears.
If they provide heating, you use them on tracks that are front limited etc. you get the idea even if i have my logics with front and rears wrong. Until we find out for certain if these rims heat or cool then we will be able to better understand where these rims will be used.
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ringo
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W09 EQ Power+

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PhillipM wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 12:56 pm
Do I need to? If they needed more heat transfer there they'd make it solid, let the aluminium (with it's orders of magnitude higher heat conduction) move the heat, and give the brake rotor mounts more surface area to transmit more heat through the hub.
It'd be massively more effective.
You are assuming that after the air passes through the very hot hub where the brakes are mounted, it will be cooler than the rim which is warmed by the tyres worked by the track?
Why do you suppose that after passing through the parts holding those 1000 degree brakes.. that same air wont draw enough heat to be at a higher temperature than the relatively cool rim already in contact with 150mph air on its external surfaces?
Heat flows from high to low temperature. If that air already after already passing through the very hot hob, which is hotter (which i suspect) than the wheel rim already in contact with nice cool air on its outer surface, heat will flow into the rim from that hot air.
Those tiny little holes on that space seem suspect to provide any significant air flow to drive heat off a wheel rim.

I could be wrong after someone from Mercedes or another team comes out and explains this, but just looking at it from a basic heat flow point of view, that cooling air has to be cooler than the rim if heat is to leave the rim. And it's difficult to see this being the case, unless this air has been carefully insulated from the brake area as it passes through the holes in the hub. As is I i stand correct, but i would need to see a proper thermodynamic explanation.
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PhillipM
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W09 EQ Power+

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No, it just needs to insulate the rim and transfer less heat than a chunk of aluminium there would.

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henry
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W09 EQ Power+

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PhillipM wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:08 am
No, it just needs to insulate the rim and transfer less heat than a chunk of aluminium there would.
Yours is the most likely explanation. The air flow is to draw heat from the spacer, that air has to go somewhere. It ends up passing near the wheel rims but probably doesn’t have any effect there.
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Polite
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W09 EQ Power+

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:12 pm
Polite wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:21 pm
so this is alleged legal and till they not run them in a gp, and take the protest and the controls, we cant say rims are legal or illegal.
They have run them in Grands Prix, that's the point. They have passed scrutineering a number of times so they are, at this point, legal.
can i do an example? in 2017 the bottom of Ferrari sf70h was approved by FIA before the championship and they run them several races, passing stewards scrutineering. But with a protest/clarification FIA obliged Ferrari to change it after few races.
Is this similar for u?

zibby43
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W09 EQ Power+

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Last edited by zibby43 on Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

OO7
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W09 EQ Power+

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That's the 2014 unit.

zibby43
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W09 EQ Power+

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Blaze1 wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:35 pm
That's the 2014 unit.
Still thought it was an interesting photo.

I’ll annotate to avoid any confusion.

OO7
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W09 EQ Power+

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I agree that it's an interesting photo zibby and it's the first photo I've of that version from the perspective shown. :)

zac510
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W09 EQ Power+

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You can tell it's old because it's got the log-style exhaust manifold, which everybody said was genius, only for Mercedes to eventually replace them with a typical tuned-length style manifold.