2018 in-season testing thread

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Mach
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Re: 2018 in-season testing thread

Post by Mach » Thu Nov 29, 2018 12:00 pm

dren wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:16 pm
I think Ferrari is going to have problems next year with Leclerc being competitive against Vettel.
If yes, how long will it take Maurizio Arrivabene et-al to terminate Sebs contract? There must be a non-performance clause in there somewhere ](*,)

Seb clearly underperformed these past couple years with several unforced emotional mistakes costing Ferrari WCC $points$ :-({|=

jjn9128
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Re: 2018 in-season testing thread

Post by jjn9128 » Thu Nov 29, 2018 12:07 pm

Mach wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 12:00 pm
dren wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:16 pm
I think Ferrari is going to have problems next year with Leclerc being competitive against Vettel.
If yes, how long will it take Maurizio Arrivabene et-al to terminate Sebs contract? There must be a non-performance clause in there somewhere ](*,)

Seb clearly underperformed these past couple years with several unforced emotional mistakes costing Ferrari WCC $points$ :-({|=
If Vettel has underperformed what has Raikkonen been doing?? Beaten, as he has been, by 181 points over 2 seasons.
#aerogandalf

dren
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Re: 2018 in-season testing thread

Post by dren » Thu Nov 29, 2018 12:12 pm

Raikkonen wasn't bad in the races but wasn't as good qualifying. I think Leclerc may be closer in qualifying, which might cause some issues.
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Phil
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Re: 2018 in-season testing thread

Post by Phil » Thu Nov 29, 2018 12:19 pm

Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:28 pm
It rather depends what Leclerc's contract says, I'd guess. If Leclerc's signed up to a definite, written in blood, number 2 position then Vettel won't worry. If he's not worried he'll drive better and so be able to outpace the youngster.
I'm very doubtful of that. If this year has shown anything, then that Vettels position in the team isn't as strong or 'good' as it used to. And Monza also highlighted something rather interesting in how Ferrari have managed both drivers; I recall that Kimi was allowed to win given how he qualified, so I'm assuming Ferrari obviously deal with things similar to Mercedes in that the driver who qualifies ahead doesn't have to drive for the other, or at least not until the team intervene with team-strategy or something.

Either way, irrespective what was signed in contracts, if Leclerc ends up being faster in qualifying, how would Ferrari manage who is number 1 or number 2? It just doesn't work. They certainly will not ask one of their drivers to purposely drive slower in qualifying so that the other has it easier.

That's why I really don't get this talk about number 1 status or not. A number 1 status (if one exists) may give you priority to updates, better staff etc, but they can't dictate who is faster unless they compromise their own race which would be idiotic.

Between Vettel and Kimi, Vettel just had it easy given the fact he usually qualified ahead. Despite all the mistakes Vettel may have made this year, he still has been the naturally faster driver of the two. I really rate Leclerc though, so I'm really interested to see who comes out on top. I wouldn't be surprised if Leclerc ends up being faster.

And to be frank; I personally think Vettel will perform better as a result of having a more competitive team-mate. Hamilton also got better as a result of the strong team-mates he has had. It's the only way to better yourself and see your own flaws if you're not always the benchmark. This change might just be good for Vettel.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
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dren
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Re: 2018 in-season testing thread

Post by dren » Thu Nov 29, 2018 12:22 pm

Agree Phil. It appeared the team favored the best qualifier. But given it was Monza, it could be said they were going to go with whoever was best there because they want to win their home GP, they might have favored Vettel everywhere else, but I doubt it. As I stated, I think the issue is going to be better competition for Vettel in qualifying with Leclerc.
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Mach
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Re: 2018 in-season testing thread

Post by Mach » Thu Nov 29, 2018 12:41 pm

jjn9128 wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 12:07 pm
Mach wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 12:00 pm
dren wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:16 pm
I think Ferrari is going to have problems next year with Leclerc being competitive against Vettel.
If yes, how long will it take Maurizio Arrivabene et-al to terminate Sebs contract? There must be a non-performance clause in there somewhere ](*,)

Seb clearly underperformed these past couple years with several unforced emotional mistakes costing Ferrari WCC $points$ :-({|=
If Vettel has underperformed what has Raikkonen been doing?? Beaten, as he has been, by 181 points over 2 seasons.
I agree.....that's why Kimi's no longer around....sadly.
Surely Arrivabene has Vettel's replacement lined up in case non-performance clause trigger needs to be executed.

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Re: 2018 in-season testing thread

Post by GPR -A » Thu Nov 29, 2018 2:55 pm

Let me highlight a perspective that none so far has wanted to look into. A young rookie walking into a team that is known for it's pressure cooker atmosphere. A team that hasn't been kind to it's drivers if they couldn't deliver. Against a driver who is a 4 time world champion and has been a supreme qualifier. I don't understand how anyone can think it's going to be a cake walk for the rookie, regardless of what the junior level accomplishments are. A few initial failures, casts devils of self doubt in the mind that might ultimately be a cause for a never ending fall.

Vettel is a man who has lost to a legendary driver who has been performing on top of his gifted abilities. There is no guarantee that even Alonso in that Ferrari could have beaten Lewis. It's the pressure of being unable to beat Lewis is
what got to Vettel and that made him desperate and over drive in situations where otherwise he could have managed well. It appears that Vettel expected a lot from the team in terms of preferential treatment over Kimi, which didn't happen and that frustration played it's part too.

It's going to be complete different situation next year, fully knowing that the new driver that has been brought in, would be provided equal opportunities and Vettel has to serve himself. That clarity in mind is more of a relief than a burden. With the experience of having lost twice, there is going to be soul searching and work would be done to address some of those gaps. It's not the rarity of talent where Vettel would falling short, it's the commodity of psychological aspects.

If anything, Vettel is going to start in a much better place and would be the stronger one against a rookie who is walking in to serve the hungry notions of the world in a team where not many have managed to make a mark, not even the four time world champion who has struggled to meet the expectations. My bet is, Vettel will overpower LeClerc, hands down.

r101
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Re: 2018 in-season testing thread

Post by r101 » Thu Nov 29, 2018 3:06 pm

jjn9128 wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 12:07 pm
Mach wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 12:00 pm
dren wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:16 pm
I think Ferrari is going to have problems next year with Leclerc being competitive against Vettel.
If yes, how long will it take Maurizio Arrivabene et-al to terminate Sebs contract? There must be a non-performance clause in there somewhere ](*,)

Seb clearly underperformed these past couple years with several unforced emotional mistakes costing Ferrari WCC $points$ :-({|=
If Vettel has underperformed what has Raikkonen been doing?? Beaten, as he has been, by 181 points over 2 seasons.
Raikkonen needs specific kind of behaviour from his car to perform well. You saw how he did when Lotus gave him what he needs, even in an otherwise mediocre car. Seb is 'prima ballerina' now.

Phil
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Re: 2018 in-season testing thread

Post by Phil » Thu Nov 29, 2018 3:21 pm

First of all, it's not Le Clerc or LeClerc. It's Leclerc.

https://www.charlesleclerc.com/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_L ... ng_driver)

Secondly, no matter how high the expectations are of Charles, the people at Ferrari aren't stupid. They are not going to be expecting him to win any world titles for them in the first year, something not even Alonso or their 4 times world-champion have achieved over the period of multiple years.

He is not going to be there to lead the team either. That will come with performance and him outqualifying his team-mate. Vettel is the veteran at the team, so the pressure is on him to outperform his rookie team-mate. If anything, I expect Charles to be strong of the bat, because no one will be expecting him to outrightly beat Vettel. His performance will be probably be close enough to raise an eyebrow. What also helps is that he is replacing a guy (Kimi) who hasn't really showed consistently good performance over the years. Kimi has been stellar at times, but on most occasions a shadow of his former self.

Also to the best of my knowledge, Charles has a contract for 2 years. So even if 2019 ends as a failure, he'll probably get a second chance to prove his worth. And I have full confidence in him, not last because Ferrari actually have all the intel they need given he has been in their program over the years. Not the same thing as driving in that Ferrari, but I'm sure they know pretty well what they are getting.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
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TAG
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Re: 2018 in-season testing thread

Post by TAG » Thu Nov 29, 2018 3:59 pm

2019 Australian GP odds of who outqualifies who at Ferrari anyone?
Countdown to 91: 7 more victories ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

NathanOlder
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Re: 2018 in-season testing thread

Post by NathanOlder » Thu Nov 29, 2018 4:08 pm

TAG wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 3:59 pm
2019 Australian GP odds of who outqualifies who at Ferrari anyone?
I have a £50 bet with my brother that Charles scores more points than Seb in 2019 [-o<
GoLandoGo
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Does anyone play F1 2019 on Ps4, Now setting up a league at

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NathanOlder
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Re: 2018 in-season testing thread

Post by NathanOlder » Thu Nov 29, 2018 4:16 pm

GPR -A wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 2:55 pm
Let me highlight a perspective that none so far has wanted to look into. A young rookie walking into a team that is known for it's pressure cooker atmosphere. A team that hasn't been kind to it's drivers if they couldn't deliver. Against a driver who is a 4 time world champion and has been a supreme qualifier .
Or , a young Ferrari academy driver, the first and only to progress to the senior team, full of confidence and self belief, winning lower formula's at ease, as a rookie smashed Ericsson who faired well against Wehrlein who was expected to be a hot driver last year and had masses of experience in F1 compared to Leclerc. Against a guy who hasn't won a title for half a decade and has let his team down 2 years running and now has a tendency to crack when things don't go his way. Also has been beaten by every single team mate he has had who is younger than himself 8)

Both our statements are correct, just looked at in different ways
GoLandoGo
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Does anyone play F1 2019 on Ps4, Now setting up a league at

https://rapidpixelracing.com

Phil
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Re: 2018 in-season testing thread

Post by Phil » Thu Nov 29, 2018 4:38 pm

TAG wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 3:59 pm
2019 Australian GP odds of who outqualifies who at Ferrari anyone?
I'd go with Vettel. It's a street circuit and street circuits are low grip, high confidence tracks. An error and you're in the wall. Therefore, Vettel knows the car and has more experience with it (even if next years car will be different to this).

I'd bank on Charles to perform better at the more conventional race tracks with high grip and more margin for error.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
#Team44 supporter

zac510
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Re: 2018 in-season testing thread

Post by zac510 » Thu Nov 29, 2018 4:50 pm

You guys should all work for Sky F1, you can turn one day of post-season testing into a story about a team crisis in no time ;)

LM10
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Re: 2018 in-season testing thread

Post by LM10 » Thu Nov 29, 2018 6:01 pm

GPR -A wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 2:55 pm
Let me highlight a perspective that none so far has wanted to look into. A young rookie walking into a team that is known for it's pressure cooker atmosphere. A team that hasn't been kind to it's drivers if they couldn't deliver. Against a driver who is a 4 time world champion and has been a supreme qualifier. I don't understand how anyone can think it's going to be a cake walk for the rookie, regardless of what the junior level accomplishments are. A few initial failures, casts devils of self doubt in the mind that might ultimately be a cause for a never ending fall.

Vettel is a man who has lost to a legendary driver who has been performing on top of his gifted abilities. There is no guarantee that even Alonso in that Ferrari could have beaten Lewis. It's the pressure of being unable to beat Lewis is
what got to Vettel and that made him desperate and over drive in situations where otherwise he could have managed well. It appears that Vettel expected a lot from the team in terms of preferential treatment over Kimi, which didn't happen and that frustration played it's part too.

It's going to be complete different situation next year, fully knowing that the new driver that has been brought in, would be provided equal opportunities and Vettel has to serve himself. That clarity in mind is more of a relief than a burden. With the experience of having lost twice, there is going to be soul searching and work would be done to address some of those gaps. It's not the rarity of talent where Vettel would falling short, it's the commodity of psychological aspects.

If anything, Vettel is going to start in a much better place and would be the stronger one against a rookie who is walking in to serve the hungry notions of the world in a team where not many have managed to make a mark, not even the four time world champion who has struggled to meet the expectations. My bet is, Vettel will overpower LeClerc, hands down.
Very well put.