HALO Approved for 2018

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
Post Reply
aral
26
Joined: 03 Apr 2010, 22:49

Re: HALO Approved for 2018

Post

I started to remove some posts as this debate between seat belts and Halo were getting ridiculous and rather pointless. The halo was approved and mandatory for 2018 and will still remain so for the forseable future. Will it save lives or serious injury? Most likely, but continuing the argument , contrary to expert opinion, is not going to change the rules.
More posts deserve to be removed , and are likely to be.
Please move on to 2019.

User avatar
strad
117
Joined: 02 Jan 2010, 01:57

Re: HALO Approved for 2018

Post

henry wrote:
07 Dec 2018, 21:53
What people do for their own entertainment and what people require others to do in order to provide vicarious thrills are two entirely separate and different things.
No body requires anyone too drive and never has.
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss

Bence
2
Joined: 31 Jan 2008, 06:36

Re: HALO Approved for 2018

Post

The halo is a latent potential killer.

As long as the gap between the arc of the halo and the cockpit is large enough to trap a nosecone and guide it towards the head/helmet of the driver, there is no such thing as protection in this case. Either the head rotates away, or the nose parks in right through the visor.

User avatar
Scorpaguy
6
Joined: 04 Mar 2010, 05:05

Re: HALO Approved for 2018

Post

The HALO is going to save lives and cost lives...the ratio of such is yet to be determined. What I do not look forward to is that bad situation when the inability to self extricate creates a horrible optic of a visibly struggling, but trapped driver. However, we can be assured that if such does happen, the FIA will aver the driver would have suffered multiple deaths prior to his struggling had the HALO not been in place.

Jolle
132
Joined: 29 Jan 2014, 22:58
Location: Dordrecht

Re: HALO Approved for 2018

Post

Bence wrote:
09 Dec 2018, 01:44
The halo is a latent potential killer.

As long as the gap between the arc of the halo and the cockpit is large enough to trap a nosecone and guide it towards the head/helmet of the driver, there is no such thing as protection in this case. Either the head rotates away, or the nose parks in right through the visor.
We had this nosecone on the head thing at IndyCar, without halo. His head did rotate away! Snapped his neck in the process.

User avatar
henry
324
Joined: 23 Feb 2004, 20:49
Location: England

Re: HALO Approved for 2018

Post

strad wrote:
08 Dec 2018, 21:48
henry wrote:
07 Dec 2018, 21:53
What people do for their own entertainment and what people require others to do in order to provide vicarious thrills are two entirely separate and different things.
No body requires anyone too drive and never has.
I was using require in its sense of needing or expecting, not commanding or instructing. I well no that no body, or nobody, forces them.
Fortune favours the prepared; she has no favourites and takes no sides.
Truth is confirmed by inspection and delay; falsehood by haste and uncertainty : Tacitus

Bence
2
Joined: 31 Jan 2008, 06:36

Re: HALO Approved for 2018

Post

Jolle wrote:
09 Dec 2018, 11:18
Bence wrote:
09 Dec 2018, 01:44
The halo is a latent potential killer.

As long as the gap between the arc of the halo and the cockpit is large enough to trap a nosecone and guide it towards the head/helmet of the driver, there is no such thing as protection in this case. Either the head rotates away, or the nose parks in right through the visor.
We had this nosecone on the head thing at IndyCar, without halo. His head did rotate away! Snapped his neck in the process.
Justin Wilson died of traumatic brain injuries, not because of a snapped neck...

But imagine when you sit in the car, you are stationery after the accident and the other car comes from the opposite direction at an angle, goes airborne and would normally fly over your head, but the halo catches the nosecone, the nose slides under the halo and your fate is sealed. Nowhere to go, your pupils go wide as time slows down in the moment of the accident and you realize, that was it. It can be a freakishly low speed accident, but the forces are enough to twist or crack a neck or skull.

User avatar
strad
117
Joined: 02 Jan 2010, 01:57

Re: HALO Approved for 2018

Post

Bence wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 08, 2018 4:44 pm
The halo is a latent potential killer.
As long as the gap between the arc of the halo and the cockpit is large enough to trap a nosecone and guide it towards the head/helmet of the driver, there is no such thing as protection in this case. Either the head rotates away, or the nose parks in right through the visor.
Even I have a hard time picturing that one. Are our noses pointy enough to fit between the HALO and the cowl?
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss

Jolle
132
Joined: 29 Jan 2014, 22:58
Location: Dordrecht

Re: HALO Approved for 2018

Post

Bence wrote:
09 Dec 2018, 21:31
Jolle wrote:
09 Dec 2018, 11:18
Bence wrote:
09 Dec 2018, 01:44
The halo is a latent potential killer.

As long as the gap between the arc of the halo and the cockpit is large enough to trap a nosecone and guide it towards the head/helmet of the driver, there is no such thing as protection in this case. Either the head rotates away, or the nose parks in right through the visor.
We had this nosecone on the head thing at IndyCar, without halo. His head did rotate away! Snapped his neck in the process.
Justin Wilson died of traumatic brain injuries, not because of a snapped neck...

But imagine when you sit in the car, you are stationery after the accident and the other car comes from the opposite direction at an angle, goes airborne and would normally fly over your head, but the halo catches the nosecone, the nose slides under the halo and your fate is sealed. Nowhere to go, your pupils go wide as time slows down in the moment of the accident and you realize, that was it. It can be a freakishly low speed accident, but the forces are enough to twist or crack a neck or skull.
If, after a big accident I’m in the opposite direction with cars flying towards me, I definitely want a halo!!

User avatar
adrianjordan
24
Joined: 28 Feb 2010, 11:34
Location: West Yorkshire, England

Re: HALO Approved for 2018

Post

Bence wrote:
09 Dec 2018, 21:31
Jolle wrote:
09 Dec 2018, 11:18
Bence wrote:
09 Dec 2018, 01:44
The halo is a latent potential killer.

As long as the gap between the arc of the halo and the cockpit is large enough to trap a nosecone and guide it towards the head/helmet of the driver, there is no such thing as protection in this case. Either the head rotates away, or the nose parks in right through the visor.
We had this nosecone on the head thing at IndyCar, without halo. His head did rotate away! Snapped his neck in the process.
Justin Wilson died of traumatic brain injuries, not because of a snapped neck...

But imagine when you sit in the car, you are stationery after the accident and the other car comes from the opposite direction at an angle, goes airborne and would normally fly over your head, but the halo catches the nosecone, the nose slides under the halo and your fate is sealed. Nowhere to go, your pupils go wide as time slows down in the moment of the accident and you realize, that was it. It can be a freakishly low speed accident, but the forces are enough to twist or crack a neck or skull.
The HANS would offer considerable protection for a driver's neck, it would have to be a very freakish accident for a driver to suffer a broken neck, let alone a fatal (or even paralysing) spinal injury....not saying it couldn't happen, but it is unlikely in the extreme.

As for head injuries, that's what helmets are for. I don't know, but I suspect there is a lot of ongoing research into improving the protection offered by the helmets.

Of course the best solution in your example would be a HALO with screens in between the chassis and the upper bar...but then you have issues of visual distortion that the drivers don't seem to be able to cope with.
Favourite driver: Lando Norris
Favourite team: McLaren

Turned down the chance to meet Vettel at Silverstone in 2007. He was a test driver at the time and I didn't think it was worth queuing!! 🤦🏻‍♂️

User avatar
Big Tea
99
Joined: 24 Dec 2017, 20:57

Re: HALO Approved for 2018

Post

adrianjordan wrote:
13 Dec 2018, 14:19
Bence wrote:
09 Dec 2018, 21:31
Jolle wrote:
09 Dec 2018, 11:18


We had this nosecone on the head thing at IndyCar, without halo. His head did rotate away! Snapped his neck in the process.
Justin Wilson died of traumatic brain injuries, not because of a snapped neck...

But imagine when you sit in the car, you are stationery after the accident and the other car comes from the opposite direction at an angle, goes airborne and would normally fly over your head, but the halo catches the nosecone, the nose slides under the halo and your fate is sealed. Nowhere to go, your pupils go wide as time slows down in the moment of the accident and you realize, that was it. It can be a freakishly low speed accident, but the forces are enough to twist or crack a neck or skull.
The HANS would offer considerable protection for a driver's neck, it would have to be a very freakish accident for a driver to suffer a broken neck, let alone a fatal (or even paralysing) spinal injury....not saying it couldn't happen, but it is unlikely in the extreme.

As for head injuries, that's what helmets are for. I don't know, but I suspect there is a lot of ongoing research into improving the protection offered by the helmets.

Of course the best solution in your example would be a HALO with screens in between the chassis and the upper bar...but then you have issues of visual distortion that the drivers don't seem to be able to cope with.

I know its very 'Star Trek' and I do not know how good the optical qualities are, but thy are 'talking about' safety glasses made of it.

http://www.surmet.com/technology/alon-optical-ceramics/
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

User avatar
FW17
165
Joined: 06 Jan 2010, 10:56

Re: HALO Approved for 2018

Post

Today the debris flying around made quiet an impact.

Wonder if FIA will further improve on the halo

Image

User avatar
El Scorchio
20
Joined: 29 Jul 2019, 12:41

Re: HALO Approved for 2018

Post

Is that the debris that ripped Hamilton's wing mirror off the car? Extremely lucky it didn't enter the cockpit. It would have done a lot of damage, halo or no halo.

izzy
41
Joined: 26 May 2019, 22:28

Re: HALO Approved for 2018

Post

FW17 wrote:
13 Oct 2019, 14:40
Today the debris flying around made quiet an impact.

Wonder if FIA will further improve on the halo

https://www.sportvideos.tv/wp-content/u ... .39.11.png
yes halo isn't 100% is it, and yes i bet FIA are watching the Indy screen. but in probability terms Halo is more effective than you might think at first glance: not many things will miss the centre strut completely and yet hit the helmet at all square. Most things will at least partly hit the centre strut or glance off the rounded side of the helmet

and in exchange Halo skips all the problems of the screen with spray getting on the inside and muck on the outside and sun on it and all that

User avatar
El Scorchio
20
Joined: 29 Jul 2019, 12:41

Re: HALO Approved for 2018

Post

To be truthful this is on the stewards rather than the pros and cons of halo vs screen or otherwise.

Leclercs car should have been flagged straight away. That's the one bulletproof way of avoiding the incident in this circumstance.

Post Reply