1) It doesn't, also i don't know which version of the technical regulations SS uses as a reference. In the newest version, published 15.10.18, it only states.McHonda wrote: ↑12 Dec 2018, 13:041) Where does it say you can't use steel pistons? (Edit: Alloyed Steel we're talking about here)saviour stivala wrote: ↑12 Dec 2018, 11:19(1) Pistons materials 5.17.1:- “Aluminum ally which is either AL-si, AL-Cu, AL-Mg, or AL-Zn based. The rules essentially allow the following. (1) 2000 series aluminum alloyed with cooper. (2) 4000 series aluminum alloyed with silicon. (3) 5000 series aluminum alloyed with magnesium. (4) 7000 series aluminum alloyed with zinc. In my personal opinion what is being used is called RR58, its composition is AL (93.7%). Cu (2.3%). Mo (1.6%). Fe (1.1%). Ni (1.0%). Si (0.18%). Ti (0.07%). RR58 was originally developed by Rolls Royce in 1930.
(2) 5.10.1 500 bar max pressure. 5.10.2 One direct injector per cylinder. What I can see is ‘in-cylinder wall from exhaust side inserted injectors. What I can see in the Mahle TJI pre-combustion chamber is both the injector and the plug are inserted inside the pre-combustion chamber.
2) You already know its an adapted form of TJI to comply with F1 regulations, Mahle boss Fred Turk literally announced that was the case in 2016.
and the only relevant paragraph for piston materials in paragraph 5.16 is5.17.1 Pistons must respect Article 5.16. Titanium alloys are not permitted.
So, steel pistons are perfectly in conformity with the rules.5.16.1 Unless explicitly permitted for a specific application, the following materials may not be used anywhere on the power unit :
a) Magnesium based alloys.
b) Metal Matrix Composites (MMC’s).
c) Intermetallic materials.
d) Alloys containing more than 5% by weight of Platinum, Ruthenium, Iridium or Rhenium.
e) Copper based alloys containing more than 2.75% Beryllium.
f) Any other alloy class containing more than 0.25% Beryllium.
g) Tungsten base alloys.
h) Ceramics and ceramic matrix composites.
Talk about a broken record. Mahle's VP announced it officially. It's on their website. I linked it for you 30 pages ago, go read it.saviour stivala wrote: ↑12 Dec 2018, 13:34(2) no it was not Fred Turk, it was one of the top speculators in the F1 media that pushed the use of Mahle TJI in FI, and he did that within a week of havening first pushed out and than retracted the use of HCCI in F1.
Again, your not using current regulations or even the correct paragraph in your 'quoted' rules.
1) There is nothing forbidding the use of steel in pistons as others have now pointed out above.saviour stivala wrote: ↑12 Dec 2018, 13:34(1) "aluminum alloy which is either" just keep reading on and you will see why steel pistons are not compatible with technical rules.
(2) no it was not Fred Turk, it was one of the top speculators in the F1 media that pushed the use of Mahle TJI in FI, and he did that within a week of havening first pushed out and than retracted the use of HCCI in F1.
4.10.2 was a missprint, it should have been 15.10.2.subcritical71 wrote: ↑12 Dec 2018, 16:37Again, your not using current regulations or even the correct paragraph in your 'quoted' rules.
2018 Regulations (published 7.12.17):
4.10.2 -> Does not exist
5.10.2 There may only be one fuel injector per cylinder and no fuel injectors are permitted upstream
of the intake valves or downstream of the exhaust valves. Only approved parts may be used
and the list of parts approved by the FIA, and the approval procedure, may be found in the
Appendix to the Technical Regulations.
2019 Regulations (published 15.10.18):
4.10.2 -> Does not exist
5.10.2 There may only be one fuel injector per cylinder and no fuel injectors are permitted upstream
of the intake valves or downstream of the exhaust valves. Only approved parts may be used
and the list of parts approved by the FIA, and the approval procedure, may be found in the
Appendix to the Technical Regulations.
https://i.imgur.com/yaxRv2g.jpg
The only thing I can add to this is that you have to click a link to another article from the article that you posted.McHonda wrote: ↑12 Dec 2018, 18:431) There is nothing forbidding the use of steel in pistons as others have now pointed out above.saviour stivala wrote: ↑12 Dec 2018, 13:34(1) "aluminum alloy which is either" just keep reading on and you will see why steel pistons are not compatible with technical rules.
(2) no it was not Fred Turk, it was one of the top speculators in the F1 media that pushed the use of Mahle TJI in FI, and he did that within a week of havening first pushed out and than retracted the use of HCCI in F1.
2) Yes it was Fred Turk and I know you've had the quotes posted to you before because I've done it myself. But just to be sure here it is again...
“The Mahle Motorsports engineers have found the right solution for Scuderia Ferrari. More than five years of development preceded that crucial phone call to Maranello with the proposal: ‘We’ve found an interesting new solution for you.’ Mahle Jet Ignition is the name of the innovation that gives the engines from Maranello a boost. Within a few weeks, in spring 2015, we adapted our solution to the Formula 1 requirements, allowing Ferrari to compete in Canada with this solution for the first time.”
-Fred Turk,Head of Mahle Motorsport 2016
https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opin ... ine-update
Please note the bolded.
Even better, go to the original source material so we can remove the opinions of the author (this report is cited as the source in Mark Hughes' article);trinidefender wrote: ↑12 Dec 2018, 21:07The only thing I can add to this is that you have to click a link to another article from the article that you posted.McHonda wrote: ↑12 Dec 2018, 18:431) There is nothing forbidding the use of steel in pistons as others have now pointed out above.saviour stivala wrote: ↑12 Dec 2018, 13:34(1) "aluminum alloy which is either" just keep reading on and you will see why steel pistons are not compatible with technical rules.
(2) no it was not Fred Turk, it was one of the top speculators in the F1 media that pushed the use of Mahle TJI in FI, and he did that within a week of havening first pushed out and than retracted the use of HCCI in F1.
2) Yes it was Fred Turk and I know you've had the quotes posted to you before because I've done it myself. But just to be sure here it is again...
“The Mahle Motorsports engineers have found the right solution for Scuderia Ferrari. More than five years of development preceded that crucial phone call to Maranello with the proposal: ‘We’ve found an interesting new solution for you.’ Mahle Jet Ignition is the name of the innovation that gives the engines from Maranello a boost. Within a few weeks, in spring 2015, we adapted our solution to the Formula 1 requirements, allowing Ferrari to compete in Canada with this solution for the first time.”
-Fred Turk,Head of Mahle Motorsport 2016
https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opin ... ine-update
Please note the bolded.
https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opin ... t-ignition
saviour stivala wrote: ↑12 Dec 2018, 18:534.10.2 was a missprint, it should have been 15.10.2.subcritical71 wrote: ↑12 Dec 2018, 16:37Again, your not using current regulations or even the correct paragraph in your 'quoted' rules.
2018 Regulations (published 7.12.17):
4.10.2 -> Does not exist
5.10.2 There may only be one fuel injector per cylinder and no fuel injectors are permitted upstream
of the intake valves or downstream of the exhaust valves. Only approved parts may be used
and the list of parts approved by the FIA, and the approval procedure, may be found in the
Appendix to the Technical Regulations.
2019 Regulations (published 15.10.18):
4.10.2 -> Does not exist
5.10.2 There may only be one fuel injector per cylinder and no fuel injectors are permitted upstream
of the intake valves or downstream of the exhaust valves. Only approved parts may be used
and the list of parts approved by the FIA, and the approval procedure, may be found in the
Appendix to the Technical Regulations.
https://i.imgur.com/yaxRv2g.jpg
Do not worry about changes in wordings, these present engines are still dircet in-cylinder injected by one injector per cylinder injecting at max 500bar and being installed on cylinder wall from the exhaust side.
Those comments are a joke right? SS was the one going on about how important the word "direct" injection is (even though it doesn't mean anything technically) and now has the audacity to say that the wording doesn't matter?subcritical71 wrote: ↑12 Dec 2018, 23:48saviour stivala wrote: ↑12 Dec 2018, 18:534.10.2 was a missprint, it should have been 15.10.2.subcritical71 wrote: ↑12 Dec 2018, 16:37
Again, your not using current regulations or even the correct paragraph in your 'quoted' rules.
2018 Regulations (published 7.12.17):
4.10.2 -> Does not exist
5.10.2 There may only be one fuel injector per cylinder and no fuel injectors are permitted upstream
of the intake valves or downstream of the exhaust valves. Only approved parts may be used
and the list of parts approved by the FIA, and the approval procedure, may be found in the
Appendix to the Technical Regulations.
2019 Regulations (published 15.10.18):
4.10.2 -> Does not exist
5.10.2 There may only be one fuel injector per cylinder and no fuel injectors are permitted upstream
of the intake valves or downstream of the exhaust valves. Only approved parts may be used
and the list of parts approved by the FIA, and the approval procedure, may be found in the
Appendix to the Technical Regulations.
https://i.imgur.com/yaxRv2g.jpg
Do not worry about changes in wordings, these present engines are still dircet in-cylinder injected by one injector per cylinder injecting at max 500bar and being installed on cylinder wall from the exhaust side.
So now it’s 15.10.2.... And wording doesn’t matter...
We don't worry about changes in wordings, because it never changed.saviour stivala wrote: ↑12 Dec 2018, 18:534.10.2 was a missprint, it should have been 15.10.2.
Do not worry about changes in wordings, these present engines are still dircet in-cylinder injected by one injector per cylinder injecting at max 500bar and being installed on cylinder wall from the exhaust side.
So the wording is exactly the same since day 1 of the Turbo-Hybrid formula regarding fuel injection. There is no mention of "direct injection" and never was.5.10.2 There may only be one fuel injector per cylinder and no fuel injectors are permitted upstream of the intake valves or downstream of the exhaust valves. Only approved parts may be used and the list of parts approved by the FIA, and the approval procedure, may be found in the Appendix to the Technical Regulations.
Because of the "One injector per cylinder" rule the F1 engines use a modified version of TJI - not the version shown in Mahle literature.saviour stivala wrote: ↑12 Dec 2018, 11:19. . . .
(2) 5.10.1 500 bar max pressure. 5.10.2 One direct injector per cylinder. What I can see is ‘in-cylinder wall from exhaust side inserted injectors. What I can see in the Mahle TJI pre-combustion chamber is both the injector and the plug are inserted inside the pre-combustion chamber.