Will Brexit ultimately affect the performances of F1 teams from 2019 onwards?

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
NathanOlder
116
User avatar
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:05 am
Location: Kent

Re: Will Brexit ultimately affect the performances of F1 teams from 2019 onwards?

Post by NathanOlder » Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:12 am

The EU is screwed IMO. Not because of Brexit but in general. Too many poor countries allowed to join too fast.

The EU is going down like Titanic, The UK may well go down too, but at least if we leave, we can have a proper go at keeping our head above water and not being sucked down with the EU.
GoLandoGo
Lewis v2.0

Does anyone play F1 2019 on Ps4, Now setting up a league at

https://rapidpixelracing.com

Ennis
9
Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2014 11:47 am

Re: Will Brexit ultimately affect the performances of F1 teams from 2019 onwards?

Post by Ennis » Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:12 pm

Tommy Cookers wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:29 pm
rubbish again ! - (yours)

democracy is a rolling loan of the people's authority to those they elected
if the elected choose they can offer the authority in a specified matter back to the people
that is a referendum
the legislature has offered to implement (in the matter specified) the instruction of the people until completion
the legislature cannot resume authority in this matter
unless eg they offer to the people a chance for the people to return authority to the legislature
another referendum - for the people to decide whether to return authority or not
presumably this referendum would bind the legislature to giving the people another referendum on the matter in hand
so the legislature might hope for a different mandate ie a different result from this last referendum
Ignoring the fact there should never have been a referendum, because we elect MPs to be experts on things the general population should not be expected to have any idea about (like a hugely complex trade union..)...

Democracy is about the will of the people, within reason. If the will of the people is to have another vote, or the people feel misled, or the people of the country have clearly shifted - it would be undemocratic to push forward 'just because'.

This cannot be compared to a general election, which by the way can be followed up on quickly when the House of Commons says it can.

Back to F1... does anyone have knowledge on the suppliers etc, and how this could impact? Surely this has to be at least some sort of advantage to Ferrari. I don't expect too big an impact on retaining top talent.

Tommy Cookers
512
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:55 pm

Re: Will Brexit ultimately affect the performances of F1 teams from 2019 onwards?

Post by Tommy Cookers » Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:26 pm

regarding whether the referendum is binding .....
today there's been hundreds of speeches by MPs and some words from referendum-giver and former PM Cameron
not one suggested the referendum wasn't binding - the words commitment, instruction and mandate were repeatedly used

the House of Commons today 'followed up' on the 2017 general election - unsurprisingly not voting 'itself' out of a job
so no-deal Brexit now seems even less likely
anyway duty waiver on imports to the UK can fall within the Trade Secretary's discretion

PM May has done a great job of preventing such a Brexit - as some predicted
'Brexit in name only' will be the next project - that of course would have no duties and no limit to freedom of movement

JonoNic
11
User avatar
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2015 2:54 pm

Re: Will Brexit ultimately affect the performances of F1 teams from 2019 onwards?

Post by JonoNic » Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:53 am

Formula 1 teams considering writing to prime minister over Brexit fears
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/14108 ... exit-fears
Always find the gap then use it.

Jolle
155
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:58 pm
Location: Dordrecht

Re: Will Brexit ultimately affect the performances of F1 teams from 2019 onwards?

Post by Jolle » Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:56 pm

If, what it looks like now, a no deal Brexit will happen, there could be weird trouble for a number of British based teams without a big company behind them.

Because there is no deal in place, there is no agreement that cars, supplies and personal can travel abroad after the UK has left the EU. Not just to the EU members but to any country (because the UK hasn't got a single agreement with any country, they were all made by the EU)

If I was running a team like Mercedes (British based with German and Austrian owners), I would make a legal copy in Germany and transferring all of the goods into that AG), so the racing team could travel abroard. In the week before the exit I would move the racing team, the cars and essentials for the first half of the season to the German base. If a deal (for F1) will be made, you could return, if not... at least the racing team (with about 200 traveling personnel) could operate from Stuttgart. With a lot of non-essential personnel (to go fast) like catering, marketing and logistics, the group of actual engineers is manageable to move to Germany or recruit from within Germany/mainland Europe.

Racing Point, McLaren and Williams could be in real danger, because they don't have the luxury of RedBull, Renault and Mercedes of having a big brother with loads of money on in a country with all of the agreements in place.

Tommy Cookers
512
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:55 pm

Re: Will Brexit ultimately affect the performances of F1 teams from 2019 onwards?

Post by Tommy Cookers » Tue Jan 22, 2019 12:29 am

Jolle wrote:
Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:56 pm
......Because there is no deal in place, there is no agreement that cars, supplies and personal can travel abroad after the UK has left the EU. .....
how do you imagine the UK teams and drivers won all those championships in the 1960s ? - when the UK wasn't in the EU

a deal means a free trade deal ie trade without import taxes (duty)
no-deal doesn't mean no trade
no-one can be prevented from trading or travelling

anyway the UK won't leave on a no-deal basis
it will remain
(or leave via the existing Withdrawal Agreement - this giving free trade)

Jolle
155
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:58 pm
Location: Dordrecht

Re: Will Brexit ultimately affect the performances of F1 teams from 2019 onwards?

Post by Jolle » Tue Jan 22, 2019 12:40 am

Tommy Cookers wrote:
Tue Jan 22, 2019 12:29 am
Jolle wrote:
Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:56 pm
......Because there is no deal in place, there is no agreement that cars, supplies and personal can travel abroad after the UK has left the EU. .....
how do you imagine the UK teams and drivers won all those championships in the 1960s ? - when the UK wasn't in the EU

a deal means a free trade deal ie trade without import taxes (duty)
no-deal doesn't mean no trade
no-one can be prevented from trading or travelling
No deal means there isn’t an agreement for trade. So no paperwork, no way to declare anything in or out of the country. And yes, it’s quite possible there will be (almost) no trade right after Brexit.

And the world has changed since the trade agreements from the 60’s and I assume those are not usable anymore and even if they were in some cases, most of the countries where they were trading with, don’t exist anymore.

And going back to the 60’s. It was more or less an amateur sport then, couple of mechanics in a van, not a million dollar operation every week.

FW17
223
User avatar
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:56 am

Re: Will Brexit ultimately affect the performances of F1 teams from 2019 onwards?

Post by FW17 » Tue Jan 22, 2019 2:49 am

Do you need a trade agreement to trade?

I thought an agreement was done so that trade between two countries may have reduced or no customs tariffs and reduced paper work

Jolle
155
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:58 pm
Location: Dordrecht

Re: Will Brexit ultimately affect the performances of F1 teams from 2019 onwards?

Post by Jolle » Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:07 am

FW17 wrote:
Tue Jan 22, 2019 2:49 am
Do you need a trade agreement to trade?

I thought an agreement was done so that trade between two countries may have reduced or no customs tariffs and reduced paper work
A trade agreement is that you agree how to do business and how large the tariffs would be and/or how you deal with movement of people. So after Brexit, the UK has to set rules how to deal with goods coming in from 100+ regions and visa versa. There will be no protection from deals put in place over the last few decades by the EU. So for instance, the EU has basic rules with China. As a EU citizen you can work there, get a visum without much hassle and we know what the tariffs are. Because the UK is totally unprepared and has no idea what to do, there is no idea what to do with goods coming in from china. And China can do whatever they want with goods, people and tariffs.

And that's just trade. Think about all the rules and regulations that come from the EU now. By what standards do good coming into the UK go by? Or protection, from April on, anyone can make Scottish Whiskey, etc etc.

One of the major benefits of Europe is that we bundled all of the bureaucracy for the 27 members into one. So if you want to sell baby clothing, you have, for Europe, one set of rules (how long it may burn for instance) and have to test it once instead of 27 times. The UK has to re-do this for themselves again and largely expand their trade offices. They will need truckloads of new rules and regulations and companies who want to do business with the UK have to go trough that process if they want to do business in the UK. Or will the UK just except all goods with an ECE approval? For British companies, they can't have their goods approved inside the UK anymore because as a non EU member you can't give anything a ECE badge.

Best case scenario is that counties will handle the UK with their default customs and tariffs rules (for when they deal with a country with no agreement in place) but they are high and steep plus a very complicated process. Going in to the UK is a bit more of a problem because the UK has noting in place. It hasn't traded with anyone in decades (it was all under the umbrella from the EU).

Either way, the UK is and will be in lots of trouble if no deal goes on.

Just_a_fan
475
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: Will Brexit ultimately affect the performances of F1 teams from 2019 onwards?

Post by Just_a_fan » Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:11 am

Are car racing teams "trading" when they go to a different country? They're not really, are they? They're not really any different to people going on holiday, just there's a lot of them and they have a lot of luggage!

I have no doubt that wheels will be greased by the FIA and the countries visited to ensure that there is no problem during race weekends. After all, a racing series where the majority of the competitors aren't allowed to race is a dead series.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

Jolle
155
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:58 pm
Location: Dordrecht

Re: Will Brexit ultimately affect the performances of F1 teams from 2019 onwards?

Post by Jolle » Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:36 am

Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:11 am
Are car racing teams "trading" when they go to a different country? They're not really, are they? They're not really any different to people going on holiday, just there's a lot of them and they have a lot of luggage!

I have no doubt that wheels will be greased by the FIA and the countries visited to ensure that there is no problem during race weekends. After all, a racing series where the majority of the competitors aren't allowed to race is a dead series.
The British members of the racing teams are working in the country they are racing, really... so work permits, visa, etc etc. But yes, I expect the FIA and FOM having a big team working with all the different promotors to work out 21 deals for the coming season.

But because it's so complex and especially the UK itself is so unprepared, I will think the three big UK based works teams are looking at ways to move, at least part of their company, to the EU and try to source materials from outside the UK.

FW17
223
User avatar
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:56 am

Re: Will Brexit ultimately affect the performances of F1 teams from 2019 onwards?

Post by FW17 » Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:51 am

Teams earn a lot of money participating in those 8 EU GPs so now they will get taxed?

Jolle
155
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:58 pm
Location: Dordrecht

Re: Will Brexit ultimately affect the performances of F1 teams from 2019 onwards?

Post by Jolle » Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:24 am

FW17 wrote:
Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:51 am
Teams earn a lot of money participating in those 8 EU GPs so now they will get taxed?
Taxes won't be a problem. F1 has dodged that with some clever funnelling of money :P so far that it's more or less part of the charmes of F1 (with Monaco as it's kingdom)

It's a misunderstanding that the UK only will have problems with the EU with dealings etc etc, but that will be the least of the problems. It's the other 100 countries where the UK has no deal, communications or agreements with (and visa versa).

henry
229
User avatar
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 7:49 pm
Location: England

Re: Will Brexit ultimately affect the performances of F1 teams from 2019 onwards?

Post by henry » Tue Jan 22, 2019 1:01 pm

In the event of no deal the most immediate issue for the teams could be truck licenses. Haulage companies from countries outside the EU must have a permit for each wagon they operate within the EU. There is a very limited number of permits available to EU hauliers, 984, and they are annual. The deadline for applying for them has passed, Monday 21 Jan. Each application will be judged on its merits, number of trips, value of goods etc, ( I’m not clear on the detail of the process).

A way round this would be to register the teams trucks in a country in the EU, and operate them on UK roads, I’m not clear what rules the U.K. has for third country hauliers operating in the U.K.

Whatever happens it’s hassle.
Fortune favours the prepared; she has no favourites and takes no sides.
Truth is confirmed by inspection and delay; falsehood by haste and uncertainty : Tacitus

Just_a_fan
475
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: Will Brexit ultimately affect the performances of F1 teams from 2019 onwards?

Post by Just_a_fan » Tue Jan 22, 2019 1:15 pm

Jolle wrote:
Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:36 am
But because it's so complex and especially the UK itself is so unprepared, I will think the three big UK based works teams are looking at ways to move, at least part of their company, to the EU and try to source materials from outside the UK.
You can't easily move parts of the company other than perhaps some managerial roles. Moving any one part of the company will be very expensive and probably more effort / cost than it's worth compared to just sorting out paperwork for those who need to travel.

Imagine moving the wind tunnel. In effect you'd have to build a new one somewhere else and get your staff to move or find new staff from elsewhere. That's tens of millions of dollars to do properly. It'll take time to do and start to get any results from it. By which time, the whole thing will have been sorted politically anyway.

If you have any information that shows that the teams are actively looking at moving their operations, please do share it.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"