F1 2019 Pre-Season Testing Thread

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
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Phil
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Re: F1 2019 Pre-Season Testing Thread

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Disclaimer; despite me pointing out the 20kg difference of fuel this year, i do think the math behind it is very solid and impressive. Just that there is a 20kg of potential margin for each team.

Ps: engine modes were mentioned in the article.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
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Suvesh
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Re: F1 2019 Pre-Season Testing Thread

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What's the 0.11, 0.04, etc?

On here:
Strat 1 Recharge
Strat 2 Quali (0.11)
Strat 3 Race Plus High SOC (0.00)
Strat 4 Race Plus Low SOC (0.00)
Strat 5 Race Plus Deploy SOC (0.04)
Strat 6 Race High SOC (0.11)
Strat 7 Race Low SOC (0.00)
Strat 8 Race Deploy (0.00)
Strat 9 Race Save High SOC (0.31)
Strat 10 PSI ? (0.18)
Strat 11 Race Save Deploy (0.29)
Strat 12 Race Save 100 Deploy (0.18)

FittingMechanics
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Re: F1 2019 Pre-Season Testing Thread

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Jambier wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 3:00 pm

Interesting =D>

This seems right, but McLaren so high is quite strange.... and on other ranking they are quite low.
Big question mark regarding where will be this team.

But ultimately, we could have a 2018 like ranking for the 5 first teams
With Renault and Haas fighting for P4, which is a disappointment for Renault to be so low right now
I am biased as I am a McLaren fan, but I was honestly very surprised everyone kept putting McLaren so low in their predictions. When you looked at the stint data, McLaren had at least comparable stints to everyone in the midfield, with little variation. McLaren also ran a race sim almost every day of the test, something most teams did not do. In the end, even their single lap qualy sims were quite good so there is little logic to put McLaren at 9th except if you are going by past performance.

This kind of analysis seems much more reflective of the data available then "finger in the air" analysis most journalists did. Analysis where someone says that "Haas looks fast", "Renault is planted" and such subjective comments based on feelings rather than data.

From a few comments from guys at McLaren, it seems they believe they are close to 4th, obviously with the close midfield it could vary a lot, but it's promising. One thing that may need to be taken into account, just like his last years analysis over estimated McLaren pace due to fact that Barcelona does not really penalize drag that much, it's possible that McLaren which seems to be low drag this year could be faster than analysis shows. If this turns out to be true, McLaren could be back to being 4th fastest team. As a fan of McLaren, I am hoping this is the case.

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yelistener
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Artur Craft wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:39 pm
yelistener wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 7:23 am
Cornering Onboard Comparison 2019 Testing Fastest Lap vs 2018 Pole

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpf-W5-CoYc

2019 wins almost every corner. Slightly slower through turn 9 mostly due to not running full engine power, because Vettel took turn 9 flatout. 2019 has crazy grip.
The question is rather they are cornering on T9 faster than on 2006/2010 because on 2017 they weren't. Probably they are at least on par now, but that's because of the new tarmac rather than the cars being actually faster
Actually they were in 2017 (or at least on par with). And to 2018 cars, 2006/2010 is not even a worthy comparison. Lewis took Pouhon flatout in Q2 in 2018 is enough to tell that it's not about the new tarmac, because Spa didnt have new tarmac in 2018. Also at Hockenheimring, Max took turn 1 flat in Q3 (first time ever in F1 history, and Max did it with a much higher corner entry speed than 2006/2010).
2018 cars crushes 2006/2010.

A vid of mine from 2017

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Artur Craft
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yelistener wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:23 am
Actually they were in 2017 (or at least on par with). And to 2018 cars, 2006/2010 is not even a worthy comparison. Lewis took Pouhon flatout in Q2 in 2018 is enough to tell that it's not about the new tarmac, because Spa didnt have new tarmac in 2018. Also at Hockenheimring, Max took turn 1 flat in Q3 (first time ever in F1 history, and Max did it with a much higher corner entry speed than 2006/2010).
2018 cars crushes 2006/2010.

A vid of mine from 2017
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCLrTpds03M[/url]
Oh, that video. Do you remember me from youtube, couple of years ago, telling you that your comparison is inacurate because the reference is wrong on the exit? You are still comparing the same way :? . On Vettel's P2 lap, the line is a lot wider so he reaches the edge of the track/white line(the reference you wrongly used) earlier but that doesn't mean his ahead. The correct reference is the intersection of the two lines, as shown below:

2010 pole
Image
2017 Vettel's P2
Image
2017 winter testing Kimi
Image

I quickly did again the frame comparison between the 2010 pole(2006 is the same) and the 2017 Vettel's P2 because I no longer remembered the correct results. It took the same time/frames for both videos(won't post a video because I don't have the time to make one) BUT the 2010 is being power limited, so it could go faster unlike the 2017 quali lap.

About Pouhon, spa was not on the 2006 calendar and on 2010 it was dump, IIRC. About Hockenheim's T1, there was no speedmeter on the 2006 pole and on the 2010 I don't remember.

A curiosity for you, this video shows that the 1994 cars were faster than the 2017 ones. You can see on Massenet, the fastest comparable corner, that despite being over 1s slower than pole, the 1994 video is on par with the 2017 pole. The speed of the aero unrestricted 1993/1994 cars were surreal.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8k-D9-AZoo

Just_a_fan
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That 1994/2017 video is rubbish, frankly. It's so out of sync as to make comparisons extremely difficult.

I'm not convinced that the conclusions they reach are warranted. For example the "B194 makes more cornering force" is specious - the B194 weighed a huge amount less than the 2017 Ferrari. That the Ferrari matches the Benetton shows that the Ferrari must be making more downforce in order to get around the corners at pretty much the same speed. More weight needs more downforce to corner at a given speed, other things being equal. If they are going around at the same speed then they are making the same "cornering force". It's all just "I don't like the new cars" fan guff.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

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Juzh
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Re: F1 2019 Pre-Season Testing Thread

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Artur Craft wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 3:42 pm
About Pouhon, spa was not on the 2006 calendar and on 2010 it was dump, IIRC. About Hockenheim's T1, there was no speedmeter on the 2006 pole and on the 2010 I don't remember.
Pouhon was on a completely different level in 2017/2018 compared to anything before it. You don't even need to do frame analysis to see it.

As for campsa I'd say you're probably right.

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yelistener
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Artur Craft wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 3:42 pm
yelistener wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:23 am
Actually they were in 2017 (or at least on par with). And to 2018 cars, 2006/2010 is not even a worthy comparison. Lewis took Pouhon flatout in Q2 in 2018 is enough to tell that it's not about the new tarmac, because Spa didnt have new tarmac in 2018. Also at Hockenheimring, Max took turn 1 flat in Q3 (first time ever in F1 history, and Max did it with a much higher corner entry speed than 2006/2010).
2018 cars crushes 2006/2010.

A vid of mine from 2017
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCLrTpds03M[/url]
Oh, that video. Do you remember me from youtube, couple of years ago, telling you that your comparison is inacurate because the reference is wrong on the exit? You are still comparing the same way :? . On Vettel's P2 lap, the line is a lot wider so he reaches the edge of the track/white line(the reference you wrongly used) earlier but that doesn't mean his ahead. The correct reference is the intersection of the two lines, as shown below:

2010 pole
https://i.imgur.com/4gujCuq.png
2017 Vettel's P2
https://i.imgur.com/DZnjR7J.jpg
2017 winter testing Kimi
https://i.imgur.com/3u1UOO1.png

I quickly did again the frame comparison between the 2010 pole(2006 is the same) and the 2017 Vettel's P2 because I no longer remembered the correct results. It took the same time/frames for both videos(won't post a video because I don't have the time to make one) BUT the 2010 is being power limited, so it could go faster unlike the 2017 quali lap.

About Pouhon, spa was not on the 2006 calendar and on 2010 it was dump, IIRC. About Hockenheim's T1, there was no speedmeter on the 2006 pole and on the 2010 I don't remember.

A curiosity for you, this video shows that the 1994 cars were faster than the 2017 ones. You can see on Massenet, the fastest comparable corner, that despite being over 1s slower than pole, the 1994 video is on par with the 2017 pole. The speed of the aero unrestricted 1993/1994 cars were surreal.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8k-D9-AZoo
I understand the reference for turn 9 isn't exactly precise, but the white line isn't any better because in 2017 the white line is no longer connected with the kerbs, so to use that as the reference, you'd have the camera angle problem. That's why I always use the kerbs as the reference because at least the tyres are hitting the kerbs, minimizing any angle problem.

With softer tyres 2017 could go faster as well. The 2017 tyres were known for being harder than usual.

2018 had DRS before Hockenheim T1 so you can bet all your money on 2018 having higher entry speed.

2010 Pole vs 2018 Q2 (dont have Q3), using the Finish Line & 50m board as the reference.
Image


And that 1994 comparison is too lousy to be taken seriously. 1994 won Massenet "because of the car", but whenever 2017 wins a corner, it's always "because of the circuit". That youtube channel has a history of unfairly slamming Post-2014 F1 cars. Most of his vids are gone, but he used to calculate speeds from the pre-2011 old onboard speedo display, and the speeds he got were totally unreliable most of the time. One of his vids that "impressed" me was that he somehow calculated that in Fisichella's 2009 Spa pole, most of his Sector2 corners had a 5-10km/h higher minimum speed than 2017 Lewis' pole. I remembered it because it's so particularly ridiculous. I don't suggest anyone to take that channel serisously, unless of cause your goal is to hate on the v6 F1 cars.

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Artur Craft
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Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:22 pm
That 1994/2017 video is rubbish, frankly. It's so out of sync as to make comparisons extremely difficult.
It inevitably is out sync but the min speed on Massenet is the same for both, which is what I was talking about. :wink: On the 1994 pole lap that speed was even higher, obviously, which I think is very impressive given how dated those tyres are. As for other things on that vid, I don't care, tbh.
Juzh wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:39 pm
Pouhon was on a completely different level in 2017/2018 compared to anything before it. You don't even need to do frame analysis to see it.
I totally believe you but as I said, the fastest cars, of before, could not qualify(2006/2010) on it being dry. On 2017 LH was almost flat, IIRC, on 2018 yelistener said he was flat on Q2, so yeah, very impressive!

But there is one thing to consider. Before, there was no drs, so they had to go to spa with a lower downforce setup while now they go with a relatively higher downforce config and just use drs
yelistener wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:21 am

That youtube channel has a history of unfairly slamming Post-2014 F1 cars.
well, I'm not particularly a big fan of the 2014-2016 cars either. But the 2017-2019 ones are great again :D

Just_a_fan
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Artur Craft wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 4:09 pm
As for other things on that vid, I don't care, tbh.
Well, there's a surprise. Now't like facts to get in the way of prejudice, eh? :wink:
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

Marble
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Re: F1 2019 Pre-Season Testing Thread

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