2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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Juzh
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Joined: 06 Oct 2012, 08:45

Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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Artur Craft wrote:
05 Apr 2019, 01:57
Revs84 wrote:
03 Apr 2019, 08:36

How did you calculate 38 bhp to be equivalent to 1 second? :roll:
I read an F1 engineer saying many years ago that, on an average track, like suzuka(the one he was talking about), 10HP means around 0.3s.
It's true, especailly for a track like suzuka which is so engine heavy, along with silverstone.

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Blackout
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Joined: 09 Feb 2010, 04:12

Re: Red Bull RB15

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rebel wrote:
03 Apr 2019, 17:42
Its just a feeling. But I think the Honda engine caught Red Bull a bit off-guard.
Reel back to 2018... last year McLaren got on the wrong foot designing a chassis for an engine that performed different ( much worse....) then promised.
This year RB looks to go through the same experience designing a chassis for an engine that performed different (much better....) then promised.
Wut :?: #-o

Espresso
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Joined: 13 Dec 2017, 15:03

Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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HPD wrote:
04 Apr 2019, 22:26
The biggest mystery is why the Red Bull does not get out of the soft tires what he should actually get out. "The trend was already there in Australia, but not as blatant as in Bahrain," recalls sporting director Helmut Marko. "We did not get the soft tires working. The car slips forward, it slides behind. On the medium tire, our car was transformed. "
......
https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... k-problem/
Just realize it's quite similar to the problems Mercedes had (and still have it in a lesser degree). They couldn't get their cars working properly on the softest tyres.
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DutchDopey
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Joined: 11 Nov 2018, 21:54

Re: Red Bull RB15

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Still those problems aren't new to redbull, 2017 windtunnel problems, or in 2018 the floorplate ( https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/red- ... 6/1401070/ ) . It is not as if they never had any aero issues.

munudeges
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Joined: 10 Jun 2011, 17:08

Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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GhostF1 wrote:
03 Apr 2019, 13:44
If you believe it was acoustic analysis that allowed some journalist to extrapolate the figure of "38hp" you're just as foolish as your "honeymoon is over" statements.
Believe what you like sunshine, the reality is there for all to see. :lol:

munudeges
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Joined: 10 Jun 2011, 17:08

Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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Webber2011 wrote:
03 Apr 2019, 12:19
That's hilarious :lol: :lol: :lol:

Every well reputed person is saying Honda are almost equal to Mercedes, and Renault are just behind.
The only thing more hilarious are people swallowing the obvious tripe Toto Wolff is spewing out, and not asking themselves why he is doing it.

munudeges
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Joined: 10 Jun 2011, 17:08

Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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rogazilla wrote:
03 Apr 2019, 13:50
Sounds like that April fools day joke has got many people...
The problem is, actual race performance bears that April Fool out................ :D

DutchDopey
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Joined: 11 Nov 2018, 21:54

Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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munudeges wrote:
05 Apr 2019, 15:12
rogazilla wrote:
03 Apr 2019, 13:50
Sounds like that April fools day joke has got many people...
The problem is, actual race performance bears that April Fool out................ :D
But then it must be possible for you to explain how acoustic analysis would work and come up with such an exact number as 38hp ?

rogazilla
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Joined: 05 Oct 2017, 16:35

Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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munudeges wrote:
05 Apr 2019, 15:12
...
The problem is, actual race performance bears that April Fool out................ :D
This is a technical forum and I'd love to know how acoustic analysis on these engines can be done to find out the power generated.

You can find out the rev based on number of cylinder and the hertz but that's hardly secret in today's formula. I know back in the days people will do that to find out how high ICE revs up but it was not worth talking about once they start to limit revs since V10 era? Unless you can analyze the combustion inside the cylinder using sound and find out what's the magic inside those cylinder wall? Maybe in a single cylinder model while you are developing? I will let other expert to chime in. On top of that the balance between ICE and ERS, it is a very tall task if it is possible.


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etusch
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Joined: 22 Feb 2009, 23:09
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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Why are Red Bull lacking performance
Circle back to pre-season testing. The first six-and-a-half days of testing had gone swimmingly. The Honda power unit had been an angel, doing what it was told, causing no problems and generating encouraging performance. Red Bull, in turn, had plenty of data to delve into on the chassis side. The test was building to a nice crescendo. And then newbie Pierre Gasly crashed (for the second time, no less) and caused heavy damage.

He emerged unscathed and the mechanics did a remarkable job to repair the car ready for Verstappen to drive on the final day. But it wasn’t the car they had aimed to run. For Gasly’s final day, Red Bull had brought in a huge raft of parts. This formed the final package that they wanted to race in Australia. But because they had pushed development to the limit, they only had one of most things.

So when Gasly got too cosy with the barriers, Red Bull’s plans were smashed off course. It was why Helmut Marko, their motorsport advisor, was publicly so frustrated with Gasly. He knew the damage was so much more than a few parts. It would cost them points – plenty of them – as they missed out on development and data-gathering time - and therefore would have to do a lot of their learning during a Grand Prix weekend - not ideal.

Australia is often referred to as something of an outlier and Red Bull were able to make the best of it, doing a better job than their rivals. But ultimately, they were still learning their car and hadn’t got a firm grip on how to set it up right to get a good balance. That weakness was cruelly exposed in Bahrain. Verstappen and particularly Gasly, who only joined the team this season, couldn’t get comfortable with the car. They complained of a lack of grip and endured particular problems when they ran the soft tyres.

It meant that in qualifying, Gasly failed to make Q3 while Verstappen only managed to beat Haas’ Kevin Magnussen to fifth by 0.005s. In the race, Verstappen was under significant pressure from Carlos Sainz in the McLaren, until the two touched putting the latter out of contention, while Gasly spent a lot of his time struggling to beat Red Bull’s junior team Toro Rosso.

“It’s a tricky car to drive at the moment,” said Horner. “Our operating window looks quite narrow. I think Max has coped with that extremely well and I think obviously it’s been harder for Pierre. We need to find more performance.

“Ferrari were very strong in Bahrain. Mercedes got lucky with a one-two. So we are trying to understand where we are. You can see, once you get in the window, particularly with these tyres, Ferrari looked like a different team to Australia and vice versa with Mercedes so it’s just understanding what the magic is.

"To a greater or to a lesser extent than other teams, I don’t know but the wind seemed to hurt our car quite a lot here. We just don’t seem to have been able to extract the most out of the tyres in both qualifying and the race. How much is that affected by the wind? It’s difficult to say.”

When Red Bull have struggled in the past, the blame has been put firmly on the doorstep of their engine supplier. But it was quite refreshing to hear Horner pointing the finger at the chassis. “Ferrari looked like they selected another gear [with the engine],” he said. “Their straight-line speed was enormously impressive, but we’ve got more to sort out on the chassis side. Honda are continuing to make good progress so our focus is on understanding the tyre issues and get the car into a good operating window.”

Fortunately, after the Bahrain race there was a two-day test – one of only two during the season, the other taking place after next month’s Spanish Grand Prix - where Red Bull could knuckle down and dig into what was going wrong. Verstappen was on hand on day one, with Dan Ticktum taking over the following day, and though his running was limited by the unexpected rain shower, they were able to carry out a high number of aerodynamic tests (something they get very little time to do during a race weekend) and progress on their problems was made. “We knew what didn’t work over the weekend in terms of rear-end grip so we tried to work on that and we learned a lot,” he said after topping the timesheets.

New parts are expected in time for next weekend’s Chinese Grand Prix, in what will be a relentless development race given the tweaks to the 2019 aerodynamic regulations. That weekend should give us a glimpse into how much they learned in Bahrain and whether the changes they’re making as a result of the test will widen the RB15’s operating window and allow for Verstappen and Gasly to extract more out of the car.

Lawrence Barretto
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... Nc6Cx.html

digitalrurouni
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Joined: 26 Feb 2016, 18:50

Re: Red Bull RB15

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DutchDopey wrote:
05 Apr 2019, 12:21
Still those problems aren't new to redbull, 2017 windtunnel problems, or in 2018 the floorplate ( https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/red- ... 6/1401070/ ) . It is not as if they never had any aero issues.
Yeah fair point. I always thought that they had a fair simple car at the beginning of the year and as the year progressed they ramped up their development but that fundamentally their car was strong just was never able to demonstrate how strong because of the relatively lackluster Renault PU. Seems Honda being much stronger this year has exposed their aero weaknesses.

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yener
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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According to Marko, Toto is trying to get Max Verstappen to Mercedes.. Max has a clause in his contract that he can leave when the RBR is not a "wc contender" (or something like that). If RBR doesnt prove to be a championship contender the next couple of race's, i'll think he will go.
"Life is about passions - Thank you for sharing mine" MSC

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nzjrs
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Joined: 07 Jan 2015, 11:21
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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yener wrote:
05 Apr 2019, 22:27
According to Marko, Toto is trying to get Max Verstappen to Mercedes.. Max has a clause in his contract that he can leave when the RBR is not a "wc contender" (or something like that). If RBR doesnt prove to be a championship contender the next couple of race's, i'll think he will go.
Can we please include the source when making assertions like this! I found https://www.autobild.de/artikel/formel- ... 48683.html which I guess you were referring to.

LM10
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Joined: 07 Mar 2018, 00:07

Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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Verstappen will surely not go to Mercedes as long as Hamilton is the clear number 1. Having a number 2 driver is a much better thing to win both championships. Verstappen would not obey any team rules and fight Hamilton to his absolute limit.

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