2019 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 10-12

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TAG
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Re: 2019 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 10-12

Post by TAG » Mon May 13, 2019 2:00 pm

IMO most people decrying that it's "hurting the sport" are teeny sour grapes that it's not their team or their driver winning. This is how the sport has ALWAYS been, to deny it is salty delusion. As Hamilton said, they're making history every weekend, that ruffles a lot of feathers.
Countdown to 91: 10 more victories ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

GPR -A
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Re: 2019 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 10-12

Post by GPR -A » Mon May 13, 2019 2:06 pm

LM10 wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 1:59 pm
GPR -A wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 1:12 pm
LM10 wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 12:46 pm


Toto needs to play mind games otherwise the opponents would see the strength of Mercedes and outpace them out of nothing. :)
But like this, Toto makes them believe that Mercedes are the underdogs! He’s a genius. =D>
Instead of blaming Toto for his professional conduct and not behaving like over obsessed fans here (fist pumping & chest thumping) , if the other teams are questioned for the rubbish cars and stupid strategies despite having similar resources and budgets, F1 might benefit more.
No one wants Toto to behave over obsessed. It’s enough to comment realistically instead of playing underdogs day in day out. Absolutely ridiculous.
I have absolutely no problem with his way of representing their state of affairs. I am sure there are many who find it ok. The frustration of opposite team fans can't be helped.

sp3no
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Re: 2019 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 10-12

Post by sp3no » Mon May 13, 2019 2:09 pm

I have been a die hard fan for many years but this weekend was yet another where I watched the opening few laps and then switched off due to the ensuing bore fest. I can see me cancelling my subscription to SKY F1 and forgetting about the sport entirely next year.

digitalrurouni
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Re: 2019 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 10-12

Post by digitalrurouni » Mon May 13, 2019 2:15 pm

Wow my post got deleted! Interesting.

Anyway during pre-season testing Mercedes has 2 different concepts I wonder if they saw that the way Ferrari was going was a dead end right then?

LM10
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Re: 2019 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 10-12

Post by LM10 » Mon May 13, 2019 2:21 pm

GPR -A wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 2:06 pm
LM10 wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 1:59 pm
GPR -A wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 1:12 pm
Instead of blaming Toto for his professional conduct and not behaving like over obsessed fans here (fist pumping & chest thumping) , if the other teams are questioned for the rubbish cars and stupid strategies despite having similar resources and budgets, F1 might benefit more.
No one wants Toto to behave over obsessed. It’s enough to comment realistically instead of playing underdogs day in day out. Absolutely ridiculous.
I have absolutely no problem with his way of representing their state of affairs. I am sure there are many who find it ok. The frustration of opposite team fans can't be helped.
I don’t care about Toto’s words. Just don’t tell me his behavior is professional when he tells they’re underdogs for the 1 thousandth time.

GPR -A
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Re: 2019 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 10-12

Post by GPR -A » Mon May 13, 2019 2:23 pm

LM10 wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 2:21 pm
GPR -A wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 2:06 pm
LM10 wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 1:59 pm


No one wants Toto to behave over obsessed. It’s enough to comment realistically instead of playing underdogs day in day out. Absolutely ridiculous.
I have absolutely no problem with his way of representing their state of affairs. I am sure there are many who find it ok. The frustration of opposite team fans can't be helped.
I don’t care about Toto’s words. Just don’t tell me his behavior is professional when he tells they’re underdogs for the 1 thousandth time.
What's wrong with it? You don't like it doesn’t mean it's wrong. It's hardly surprising that those who have their fan loyalties kept elsewhere find it problematic. One poster on red bull team forum thinks something is fishy because Mercedes is winning every race.

When you don't like him, Is it that hard to not listen to him OR not read anything about him?

digitalrurouni
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Re: 2019 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 10-12

Post by digitalrurouni » Mon May 13, 2019 2:35 pm

LM10 wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 2:21 pm
GPR -A wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 2:06 pm
LM10 wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 1:59 pm


No one wants Toto to behave over obsessed. It’s enough to comment realistically instead of playing underdogs day in day out. Absolutely ridiculous.
I have absolutely no problem with his way of representing their state of affairs. I am sure there are many who find it ok. The frustration of opposite team fans can't be helped.
I don’t care about Toto’s words. Just don’t tell me his behavior is professional when he tells they’re underdogs for the 1 thousandth time.
I had a nice post (at least I thought it was and somehow it got deleted). But I think I don't understand the hate for Toto. Put yourself in a team manager's shoes. New season starts. You are surrounded by unknowns. You have an image to present to the world as well for your team. You are a multiple WCC and WDC as well. You naturally will side on appearing modest and not bragging about your achievements. Testing happens. Ferrari clean everyone's clock. You still are not sure. You are just aware there will be a fight in your hands. First round happens and you do really well and you win. You have access to GPS traces. You realize Ferrari were not in their window of performance and also Albert Park doesn't indicate how good a car is.

Bahrain happens and Ferrari nearly win it but mechanical hurts them and you win and you admit that Leclerc was gonna win and you put an arm around his shoulder and encourage him etc even as a Mercedes team boss. You are still not convinced your team is quick.

China happens Ferrari makes blunders and you think oh wow we won this too even though Ferrari had massive speed down the straights.

Same in Baku you think Ferrari would have won had Leclerc not binned it. So you still think you are a bit of underdogs.

Everyone keeps saying European round starts at Catalunya and that's when we will know how cars line up. You blow them away. NOW if Toto still keeps saying we are underdogs then yeah he deserves all the hatred. Let's see what he says. :) Sorry for the long post! Hope I got my point across.

Sierra117
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Re: 2019 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 10-12

Post by Sierra117 » Mon May 13, 2019 2:52 pm

digitalrurouni wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 2:35 pm
LM10 wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 2:21 pm
GPR -A wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 2:06 pm
I have absolutely no problem with his way of representing their state of affairs. I am sure there are many who find it ok. The frustration of opposite team fans can't be helped.
I don’t care about Toto’s words. Just don’t tell me his behavior is professional when he tells they’re underdogs for the 1 thousandth time.
I had a nice post (at least I thought it was and somehow it got deleted). But I think I don't understand the hate for Toto. Put yourself in a team manager's shoes. New season starts. You are surrounded by unknowns. You have an image to present to the world as well for your team. You are a multiple WCC and WDC as well. You naturally will side on appearing modest and not bragging about your achievements. Testing happens. Ferrari clean everyone's clock. You still are not sure. You are just aware there will be a fight in your hands. First round happens and you do really well and you win. You have access to GPS traces. You realize Ferrari were not in their window of performance and also Albert Park doesn't indicate how good a car is.

Bahrain happens and Ferrari nearly win it but mechanical hurts them and you win and you admit that Leclerc was gonna win and you put an arm around his shoulder and encourage him etc even as a Mercedes team boss. You are still not convinced your team is quick.

China happens Ferrari makes blunders and you think oh wow we won this too even though Ferrari had massive speed down the straights.

Same in Baku you think Ferrari would have won had Leclerc not binned it. So you still think you are a bit of underdogs.

Everyone keeps saying European round starts at Catalunya and that's when we will know how cars line up. You blow them away. NOW if Toto still keeps saying we are underdogs then yeah he deserves all the hatred. Let's see what he says. :) Sorry for the long post! Hope I got my point across.
Great post @digitalrurouni Aaaand guess what! That's exactly what Toto said in the post race interview - that he admits now that they have the best car.
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digitalrurouni
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Re: 2019 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 10-12

Post by digitalrurouni » Mon May 13, 2019 3:02 pm

Sierra117 wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 2:52 pm
digitalrurouni wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 2:35 pm
LM10 wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 2:21 pm


I don’t care about Toto’s words. Just don’t tell me his behavior is professional when he tells they’re underdogs for the 1 thousandth time.
I had a nice post (at least I thought it was and somehow it got deleted). But I think I don't understand the hate for Toto. Put yourself in a team manager's shoes. New season starts. You are surrounded by unknowns. You have an image to present to the world as well for your team. You are a multiple WCC and WDC as well. You naturally will side on appearing modest and not bragging about your achievements. Testing happens. Ferrari clean everyone's clock. You still are not sure. You are just aware there will be a fight in your hands. First round happens and you do really well and you win. You have access to GPS traces. You realize Ferrari were not in their window of performance and also Albert Park doesn't indicate how good a car is.

Bahrain happens and Ferrari nearly win it but mechanical hurts them and you win and you admit that Leclerc was gonna win and you put an arm around his shoulder and encourage him etc even as a Mercedes team boss. You are still not convinced your team is quick.

China happens Ferrari makes blunders and you think oh wow we won this too even though Ferrari had massive speed down the straights.

Same in Baku you think Ferrari would have won had Leclerc not binned it. So you still think you are a bit of underdogs.

Everyone keeps saying European round starts at Catalunya and that's when we will know how cars line up. You blow them away. NOW if Toto still keeps saying we are underdogs then yeah he deserves all the hatred. Let's see what he says. :) Sorry for the long post! Hope I got my point across.
Great post @digitalrurouni Aaaand guess what! That's exactly what Toto said in the post race interview - that he admits now that they have the best car.
Hah thanks I feel quite accomplished if I can post something meaningful in this forum of uber smart people. Yeah funnily enough after I posted that I saw Toto's comments lol. He kinda made my point for me. Way to go Toto!

Which is why I get a bit surprised at the number of smart people here in this forum how their anger towards Toto just has always seemed unwarranted to me.

Just_a_fan
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Re: 2019 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 10-12

Post by Just_a_fan » Mon May 13, 2019 3:42 pm

santos wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 1:51 pm
ubuysa wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 1:43 pm
I well remember similar 'its boring' cries in the days of Schumi/Ferrari dominance. The fact is that if you put the best driver in the best car he's going to win a lot. It's not like this is the first time this has ever happened.
Not in the same way as now. Just like it isn't when Red Bull were winning championships.
You should revisit the 2000-2004 seasons. In 2002, Michael came first or second in every race except Malaysia where he was third. In 2004, the only reason he didn't win the first 13 races in a row is because he had a shunt with Montoya at Monaco. He'd already won 5 on the bounce before Monaco, went on to win the next 7 on the bounce.

In 2011, Vettel was first or second (mostly first) in the first 9 races. He had one retirement, a third and a fourth but otherwise was first or second every other race. 2013, Vettel had 9 wins in a row!

Previous years haven't had the almost metronomic reliability of the current cars, and that has had a part to play. Back in the day, the dominant car would still have the occasional reliability issue. These days we see very few. Look at Spain - the only reason the entire grid didn't finish the race is because two of them shunted out. If not for that, the whole field would have finished. Leclerc was unlucky to have a partial failure in Bahrain - but for that, Ferrari would have won the race and all this talk of boring/dominant 1-2s wouldn't be happening.

Look at last season - Ferrari could have won the titles but for team and driver failings. It's not Mercedes's fault that their opponents keep shooting themselves in the foot. Mercedes keep winning because they do a better job than the others.

One thing that has made a difference, compared to the historic RedBull / Ferrari situations, is that Mercedes have had two strong drivers. This means that they maximise their returns on Sunday. RedBull and Ferrari had a weaker second driver, relatively, and so others got a chance to capitalise on the team's rare failures. Again, Mercedes are doing a better job and being rewarded for it.
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Carl Mccoy
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Re: 2019 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 10-12

Post by Carl Mccoy » Mon May 13, 2019 3:55 pm

Just_a_fan wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 3:42 pm
santos wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 1:51 pm
ubuysa wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 1:43 pm
I well remember similar 'its boring' cries in the days of Schumi/Ferrari dominance. The fact is that if you put the best driver in the best car he's going to win a lot. It's not like this is the first time this has ever happened.
Not in the same way as now. Just like it isn't when Red Bull were winning championships.
You should revisit the 2000-2004 seasons. In 2002, Michael came first or second in every race except Malaysia where he was third. In 2004, the only reason he didn't win the first 13 races in a row is because he had a shunt with Montoya at Monaco. He'd already won 5 on the bounce before Monaco, went on to win the next 7 on the bounce.

In 2011, Vettel was first or second (mostly first) in the first 9 races. He had one retirement, a third and a fourth but otherwise was first or second every other race.

Previous years haven't had the almost metronomic reliability of the current cars, and that has had a part to play. Back in the day, the dominant car would still have the occasional reliability issue. These days we see very few. Look at Spain - the only reason the entire grid didn't finish the race is because two of them shunted out. If not for that, the whole field would have finished. Leclerc was unlucky to have a partial failure in Bahrain - but for that, Ferrari would have won the race and all this talk of boring/dominant 1-2s wouldn't be happening.

Look at last season - Ferrari could have won the titles but for team and driver failings. It's not Mercedes's fault that their opponents keep shooting themselves in the foot. Mercedes keep winning because they do a better job than the others.

One thing that has made a difference, compared to the historic RedBull / Ferrari situations, is that Mercedes have had two strong drivers. This means that they maximise their returns on Sunday. RedBull and Ferrari had a weaker second driver, relatively, and so others got a chance to capitalise on the team's rare failures. Again, Mercedes are doing a better job and being rewarded for it.
The advantage of Mercedes is difficult to explain after the last two seasons. Ferrari could have been wrong at this year's car, but why Red Bull is so far away.

dans79
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Re: 2019 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 10-12

Post by dans79 » Mon May 13, 2019 3:55 pm

Chuckjr wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 12:22 pm
F1 may never recover with Mercedes in the game. Whatever changes they make, Merc will dominate with nearly unlimited resources. Ok great for them, but its death for the sport.
Everything dies eventually!

I don't think F1 will die. But if it must I'd rather watch it go out in a blaze of glory (one team destroying all comers), than watch it become what some would like it to become, chaos & fake drama to please the mob.

santos
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Re: 2019 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 10-12

Post by santos » Mon May 13, 2019 3:58 pm

Just_a_fan wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 3:42 pm
santos wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 1:51 pm
ubuysa wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 1:43 pm
I well remember similar 'its boring' cries in the days of Schumi/Ferrari dominance. The fact is that if you put the best driver in the best car he's going to win a lot. It's not like this is the first time this has ever happened.
Not in the same way as now. Just like it isn't when Red Bull were winning championships.
You should revisit the 2000-2004 seasons. In 2002, Michael came first or second in every race except Malaysia where he was third. In 2004, the only reason he didn't win the first 13 races in a row is because he had a shunt with Montoya at Monaco. He'd already won 5 on the bounce before Monaco, went on to win the next 7 on the bounce.

In 2011, Vettel was first or second (mostly first) in the first 9 races. He had one retirement, a third and a fourth but otherwise was first or second every other race.

Previous years haven't had the almost metronomic reliability of the current cars, and that has had a part to play. Back in the day, the dominant car would still have the occasional reliability issue. These days we see very few. Look at Spain - the only reason the entire grid didn't finish the race is because two of them shunted out. If not for that, the whole field would have finished. Leclerc was unlucky to have a partial failure in Bahrain - but for that, Ferrari would have won the race and all this talk of boring/dominant 1-2s wouldn't be happening.

Look at last season - Ferrari could have won the titles but for team and driver failings. It's not Mercedes's fault that their opponents keep shooting themselves in the foot. Mercedes keep winning because they do a better job than the others.

One thing that has made a difference, compared to the historic RedBull / Ferrari situations, is that Mercedes have had two strong drivers. This means that they maximise their returns on Sunday. RedBull and Ferrari had a weaker second driver, relatively, and so others got a chance to capitalise on the team's rare failures. Again, Mercedes are doing a better job and being rewarded for it.
I would be just a cry baby if was complaining about Mercedes winning all the races. It's not the fact that they are dominant that made me lost the interess in the recent times. And it's not just on the top 3 teams, it's a problem across the field. As i said, Red Bull were dominant and i still liked to watch the races. Maybe it's because i watch other series, and when it comes to F1... the race is boring.

Jolle
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Re: 2019 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 10-12

Post by Jolle » Mon May 13, 2019 3:59 pm

A season like this feels a bit like another 1988, six cars who can go for the win by theory and one team smashing it.

Zynerji
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Re: 2019 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 10-12

Post by Zynerji » Mon May 13, 2019 4:02 pm

Its getting to the point that I'm not even watching live anymore... I start the replay, watch the first couple corners, then fast forward to watch the last 5 laps.

Sad, but this has been sad for a loooooong time.