2019 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 10-12

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Zynerji
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Re: 2019 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 10-12

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Jolle wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 9:08 pm
Zynerji wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 8:49 pm
Jolle wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 8:42 pm


I think his last mistake with consequences was Baku 2016, Q3.... three years ago...
I can appreciate the level that he has been operating at since 2007. Honestly, his "because I'm black" quote in Monaco a few years ago rather turned me off to him, but it was said as a joke and not serious.


I think the GOAT status needs to be applied to the driver that made the least mistakes over the one that won the most. While I agree that any contemporary driver to the Ferrari/Renault/RBR/Merc eras would have won in those cars, I do not think all of them could have been mistake free enough to seize the title. This is where Lewis is truly the standout IMHO, and we have yet to see him in a controversy on the level of Prost/Senna in 1989 or Schumacher/Hill in 1994...
Like all athletes, artists, constructors and other humans, they are not perfect from the get-go. Of course Hamilton had his brush with controversy, the Alonso spat, The "thingy" with lying at AUS 2009 and of course the frustration of 2011 where he got penalty after penalty and he said "Maybe because I'm black". Plus don't forget those races in 2010/2011 where he had trouble getting clean trough the first lap.

But!! great but... he matured and rubbed out all his weak spots so far that he's pretty perfect.
I forgot that he and Massa were magnetic in that 2011 season... :lol:

Jolle
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Re: 2019 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 10-12

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Zynerji wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 9:10 pm
Jolle wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 9:08 pm
Zynerji wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 8:49 pm


I can appreciate the level that he has been operating at since 2007. Honestly, his "because I'm black" quote in Monaco a few years ago rather turned me off to him, but it was said as a joke and not serious.


I think the GOAT status needs to be applied to the driver that made the least mistakes over the one that won the most. While I agree that any contemporary driver to the Ferrari/Renault/RBR/Merc eras would have won in those cars, I do not think all of them could have been mistake free enough to seize the title. This is where Lewis is truly the standout IMHO, and we have yet to see him in a controversy on the level of Prost/Senna in 1989 or Schumacher/Hill in 1994...
Like all athletes, artists, constructors and other humans, they are not perfect from the get-go. Of course Hamilton had his brush with controversy, the Alonso spat, The "thingy" with lying at AUS 2009 and of course the frustration of 2011 where he got penalty after penalty and he said "Maybe because I'm black". Plus don't forget those races in 2010/2011 where he had trouble getting clean trough the first lap.

But!! great but... he matured and rubbed out all his weak spots so far that he's pretty perfect.
I forgot that he and Massa were magnetic in that 2011 season... :lol:
Yes :D that were a fun few years!

For me Hamilton is a driver like the type Senna was, naturally very fast, but trough the years combined this with the patience of Prost, the psychical strength of Schumacher, but without the crashing his opponent off track like all three did (on numeral occasions). And I think he's working on the James Hunt flair a bit :P

Verstappen is another driver who is busy developing himself on this path. He seems to be a new driver since he isn't challenged within the team anymore.

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yelistener
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Re: 2019 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 10-12

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Quali Turn 9 compilation
(F1 app telemetry laps from Juzh)

Last edited by yelistener on Tue May 14, 2019 2:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

digitalrurouni
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Re: 2019 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 10-12

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Gotta agree Verstappen had been absolutely phenomenal for me this year. Visible how mature he's gotten. He's really getting everything out of his machine. He hasn't out a foot wrong. It would be insane if he can split the Ferrari drivers in the championship by the end of the year.

dans79
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Re: 2019 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 10-12

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digitalrurouni wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 2:31 am
Gotta agree Verstappen had been absolutely phenomenal for me this year. Visible how mature he's gotten. He's really getting everything out of his machine. He hasn't out a foot wrong. It would be insane if he can split the Ferrari drivers in the championship by the end of the year.
until and including last year I really didn't care for Max, as I thought he was immature and a hazard to everyone around him.

This year though, he has taken a massive leap forward in maturity. In my opinion if he maintains his current mindset he'll finish in front of both Ferraris.
Last edited by dans79 on Tue May 14, 2019 3:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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TAG
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Re: 2019 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 10-12

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dans79 wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 2:46 am
until and including last year I really didn't care for Max, as I thought he was immature and a hazard to everyone around them.

This year though, he has taken a massive leap forward in maturity. In my opinion if he maintains his current mindset he'll finish in front of both Ferraris.
I think we're following the same path with Max. Something changed with him over the off season. Perhaps it was snatching defeat from the jaws of victory with the Ocon crash? Don't know. But this year he's been a leader at Red Bull. Ricciardo leaving has left him the lone Rooster and it's obviously suiting him. He's driving like a guy a team can build a championship challenge around.

Restomaniac
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Re: 2019 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 10-12

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dans79 wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 2:46 am
digitalrurouni wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 2:31 am
Gotta agree Verstappen had been absolutely phenomenal for me this year. Visible how mature he's gotten. He's really getting everything out of his machine. He hasn't out a foot wrong. It would be insane if he can split the Ferrari drivers in the championship by the end of the year.
until and including last year I really didn't care for Max, as I thought he was immature and a hazard to everyone around them.

This year though, he has taken a massive leap forward in maturity. In my opinion if he maintains his current mindset he'll finish in front of both Ferraris.
There has always been the talent in there he just HAD to grow up and see that he can lose to fight another day now and then.

ubuysa
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Re: 2019 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 10-12

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TAG wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 3:09 am
dans79 wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 2:46 am
until and including last year I really didn't care for Max, as I thought he was immature and a hazard to everyone around them.

This year though, he has taken a massive leap forward in maturity. In my opinion if he maintains his current mindset he'll finish in front of both Ferraris.
I think we're following the same path with Max. Something changed with him over the off season. Perhaps it was snatching defeat from the jaws of victory with the Ocon crash? Don't know. But this year he's been a leader at Red Bull. Ricciardo leaving has left him the lone Rooster and it's obviously suiting him. He's driving like a guy a team can build a championship challenge around.
I'd agree with all the above. I've wanted to like Max for a couple of years now because he is a very talented driver, but I found his childish antics and overly aggressive style of driving off-putting. Hopefully he's matured some now and his performance so far does seem to show that. Nobody has yet tried to put a serious move on him yet though so I think we have to see whether he's conquered his red mist problem....

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NathanOlder
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Re: 2019 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 10-12

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We need to see Max in a title before we go too far, He knows the Ferrari is better than the RedBull so far, so he wont look bad finishing 5th, in other words, no pressure. This year he has only really had a brief battle with Vettel in China. He's had a fairly easy run of it with the 2 Ferrari's slowing each other down.

As for Lewis' mistakes, a crash in Qualy in Brazil 17 was his last major mistake i think @Jolle.
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NathanOlder
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Re: 2019 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 10-12

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ubuysa wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 10:21 am
TAG wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 3:09 am
dans79 wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 2:46 am
until and including last year I really didn't care for Max, as I thought he was immature and a hazard to everyone around them.

This year though, he has taken a massive leap forward in maturity. In my opinion if he maintains his current mindset he'll finish in front of both Ferraris.
I think we're following the same path with Max. Something changed with him over the off season. Perhaps it was snatching defeat from the jaws of victory with the Ocon crash? Don't know. But this year he's been a leader at Red Bull. Ricciardo leaving has left him the lone Rooster and it's obviously suiting him. He's driving like a guy a team can build a championship challenge around.
I'd agree with all the above. I've wanted to like Max for a couple of years now because he is a very talented driver, but I found his childish antics and overly aggressive style of driving off-putting. Hopefully he's matured some now and his performance so far does seem to show that. Nobody has yet tried to put a serious move on him yet though so I think we have to see whether he's conquered his red mist problem....
100% agree
GoLandoGo
Lewis v2.0

Does anyone play F1 2020 on Ps4, Now starting our 3rd season. No assists, 50% races.

https://rapidpixelracing.com

Jolle
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Re: 2019 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 10-12

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NathanOlder wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 10:22 am
We need to see Max in a title before we go too far, He knows the Ferrari is better than the RedBull so far, so he wont look bad finishing 5th, in other words, no pressure. This year he has only really had a brief battle with Vettel in China. He's had a fairly easy run of it with the 2 Ferrari's slowing each other down.

As for Lewis' mistakes, a crash in Qualy in Brazil 17 was his last major mistake i think @Jolle.
Brazil was a mistake indeed, but he already had the title by then ;-)

tinvek
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Re: 2019 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 10-12

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TAG wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 3:09 am
dans79 wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 2:46 am
until and including last year I really didn't care for Max, as I thought he was immature and a hazard to everyone around them.

This year though, he has taken a massive leap forward in maturity. In my opinion if he maintains his current mindset he'll finish in front of both Ferraris.
I think we're following the same path with Max. Something changed with him over the off season. Perhaps it was snatching defeat from the jaws of victory with the Ocon crash? Don't know. But this year he's been a leader at Red Bull. Ricciardo leaving has left him the lone Rooster and it's obviously suiting him. He's driving like a guy a team can build a championship challenge around.
it's a big change, i'm even wondering if it's since he started serious racing in Iracing, previously he just dabbled, famously practising his outside pass at blanchimont, but now he's a lot more serious about his online racing.

it sounds stupid but given the amount of protests, video clips etc of totally boneheaded passing moves he's making, i'm wondering if iracing allows him to get that side of things out of his system, he certainly isn't like most of the other current or ex racers just having fun, as he's regularly challenging and beating the world records and entering the serious races against the fastest sim racers.

it's a similar story with lando who was stupid fast when he first appeared on racing a couple of years ago, he's teamed with max and again at times appears over committed to pass manoeuvres.

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yelistener
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Re: 2019 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 10-12

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2004 vs 2019, just for fun

Last edited by yelistener on Tue May 14, 2019 12:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Just_a_fan
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Re: 2019 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 10-12

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That shows how fast the current cars are. Stick a slow chicane in the lap and the current car is less than half a second slower. Before the chicane, Bottas was miles ahead!
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marvin78
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Re: 2019 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 10-12

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I wonder how fast the 2004 car would have been with Slick tyres.
Last edited by marvin78 on Tue May 14, 2019 12:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.