2019 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

This forum contains threads to discuss teams themselves. Anything not technical about the cars, including restructuring, performances etc belongs here.
Unc1eM0nty
5
User avatar
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 2:18 pm
Location: Yorkshire (Gods own county)

Re: 2019 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by Unc1eM0nty » Tue May 14, 2019 9:12 am

RS200E wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 12:22 am
TAG wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 7:01 pm
What Mercedes is achieving here will be part of motorsport history, in time.
It will also ve remembered as a time when the F1 owners were too weak to take control of the sport and make it fair. Ferrari and Mercedes control F1, not Liberty.
I doubt it, in years to come people will just look back at it like they do the dominant McLaren and Williams of previous era's

RS200E
7
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2017 12:13 pm

Re: 2019 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by RS200E » Tue May 14, 2019 9:15 am

Nah F1 fans are known to be very knowledgeable about the sport.

LM10
50
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:07 pm

Re: 2019 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by LM10 » Tue May 14, 2019 10:18 am

zibby43 wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 3:50 am
LM10 wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 11:55 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 8:57 pm
Lots of people on the forum bashing Mercedes's success etc. Just thought it would be nice to post a "good news" story. Not good news for the poor young lad, but you know what I mean.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-48258777
Really nice gesture from Lewis and Mercedes. It's situations like this when everything else than health appears really unimportant.
Well said, my friend.
Thank you, my friend.

Phil
397
User avatar
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 3:22 pm

Re: 2019 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by Phil » Tue May 14, 2019 2:59 pm

The battle between Hamilton and Bottas is shaping up to be interesting. 3 poles in succession is not to be underestimated and as I have argued previously, I feel Bottas has been underestimated severly in the previous two seasons.

No doubt, I think Nico Rosberg has been a stronger opponent to Lewis - not last because Rosberg had very good ties to the team he joined much earlier, perhaps his closer relationship to Lewis (on a personal level) and the psychological warfare. Adding to that, Rosberg was very quick too, perhaps just slightly off in race pace, but extremely consistent throughout a weekend.

Bottas though has shown that he can be as fast as Lewis, especially on Saturdays. He has not only demonstrated this this year, but also in the last two seasons too. He was extremely unlucky beginning last year when he also started very strong, but didn't get in the results through circumstance that would have meant he could have been leading last years championship after Baku too. Bottas image also suffered somewhat due to him usually finding himself behind Lewis in races (and behind strong Ferraris) that meant Mercedes put him on less than optimal strategies, on one hand to protect Lewis, on the other hand to achieve a better team-result and also force Ferrari here and there. Overall, it meant that Bottas finished a distant 4th in the end.

Despite this, I think Lewis is still arguably the quicker driver, not least because he also has an incredible fighting spirit during races which has seen him win races he simply shouldn't have (Monza last year is a great example, but also this year at Bahrain in his battle vs Vettel). I am yet to see this from Bottas. Nevertheless, Bottas is quick and he is on the run of his career surely. He now knows that Lewis is beatable, that he can beat and challenge him. This self-belief and the run he is on could carry on to new heights and see him become a very serious contender.

What is also not to be unterestimated is that it's looking to be another 2 horse race between both Mercedes drivers. The intel is shared, the set-up potentially. Few secrets. And every win or loss is a potential 7-8 point deficit. More if you consider that one's win is the other's loss. Reliability could prove crucial, as it has against Rosberg.
Last edited by Phil on Tue May 14, 2019 3:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
#Team44 supporter

GPR -A
89
User avatar
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:08 pm

Re: 2019 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by GPR -A » Tue May 14, 2019 3:23 pm

As far as qualifying is concerned, it's just 5 races over in the season and one should wait for the season to complete before giving out conclusions on qualifying performance, head to head.

In three races that Lewis got ahead, he disappeared ahead of Bottas and Bottas was nowhere in a position to do anything. Whereas in 2 races where Bottas was ahead, in one of those, Lewis had a floor damage and in the second, he was at Bottas' tail for the entire GP. It has been that way with Nico also when Nico was behind, he was just too far behind and when Lewis was behind, he was pretty much on his tail forcing him to do errors.

Lewis so far doesn't seem to have developed harmony with the car for that one ultimate lap yet and the season is long.

No wonder, Lewis' former no. 2 engineer, who is now the No. 1 engineer for Bottas has done a good job to Bottas' performance. In 2016, almost the entire crew from Lewis moved over to Nico, which helped him immensely in terms of taking Lewis' secrets on setting up the car and suddenly, he was a better driver.

TAG
109
User avatar
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2014 3:18 pm
Location: in a good place

Re: 2019 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by TAG » Tue May 14, 2019 3:59 pm

Rosberg was a "mean girl" version of Bottas. Both of them are pretty lousy at overtaking which to beat Lewis, you're going to have to be able to do.
Countdown to 91: 8 more victories ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

RonDennis
41
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:56 pm

Re: 2019 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by RonDennis » Tue May 14, 2019 4:06 pm

Bottas and Rosberg are simply too slow. They have their days, but Hamilton is still in a class of his own over a full season. Bottas now has the confidence, but what will happen after a few bad weekends.

dans79
201
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:33 pm
Location: USA

Re: 2019 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by dans79 » Tue May 14, 2019 4:15 pm

RonDennis wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 4:06 pm
Bottas and Rosberg are simply too slow. They have their days, but Hamilton is still in a class of his own over a full season. Bottas now has the confidence, but what will happen after a few bad weekends.
A better question will be how will he cope when Lewis gets his one lap set-up dialed in. Right now Lewis isn't happy with his qualifying set-up, and is having to compromise and alter his natural style.

Phil
397
User avatar
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 3:22 pm

Re: 2019 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by Phil » Tue May 14, 2019 4:24 pm

I'm a Lewis fan as much as the next guy in here, but can we get beyond the "Lewis is unbeatable on his best-day" blabla rubbish? Lewis might be one of the most naturally gifted drivers the sport has seen (I firmly believe so), but it doesn't mean that he is unbeatable. He is human, as much as the next guy. Under pressure, he makes mistakes, just as he did when Rosberg pushed him to another level. Bottas has already demonstrated that he has the speed. What Bottas hasn't demonstrated is that he has the speed and the fighting spirit across an entire season. He also has a "knack" for falling back in the race (a bit like Rosberg) when he is behind. However, in a two horse race between team-mates, he can get away with it.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
#Team44 supporter

dans79
201
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:33 pm
Location: USA

Re: 2019 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by dans79 » Tue May 14, 2019 4:26 pm

Phil wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 4:24 pm
I'm a Lewis fan as much as the next guy in here, but can we get beyond the "Lewis is unbeatable on his best-day" blabla rubbish?
Who said anything close to this?

TAG
109
User avatar
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2014 3:18 pm
Location: in a good place

Re: 2019 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by TAG » Tue May 14, 2019 4:27 pm



Here's Peter Windsor's opinion on the matter.
Countdown to 91: 8 more victories ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Phil
397
User avatar
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 3:22 pm

Re: 2019 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by Phil » Tue May 14, 2019 4:35 pm

dans79 wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 4:26 pm
Who said anything close to this?
No one directly, but it's the tone that is being implied. E.g. "How will Bottas react when Hamilton gets his 1-lap pace dialed in".

Have you considered that pressure means that it's more difficult to extract your potential? Hamilton under pressure doesn't always deliver his best. We've seen it in his battles with Rosberg. And there's another point; I think Hamilton is a driver who shines more when he is driving a difficult car. Under such circumstances, the difference in skill becomes more apparent. If the car is easy/easier to drive at the limit, the driver element decreases.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
#Team44 supporter

dans79
201
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:33 pm
Location: USA

Re: 2019 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by dans79 » Tue May 14, 2019 4:42 pm

Phil wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 4:35 pm
Have you considered that pressure means that it's more difficult to extract your potential? Hamilton under pressure doesn't always deliver his best. We've seen it in his battles with Rosberg.
Rosberg liked to play mindgames, Bottas just isn't that kind of person.

GPR -A
89
User avatar
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:08 pm

Re: 2019 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by GPR -A » Tue May 14, 2019 4:57 pm

Phil wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 4:35 pm
Hamilton under pressure doesn't always deliver his best. We've seen it in his battles with Rosberg.
You probably got the names reversed in this sentence. :lol:

There have been numerous discussions about Lewis' misfortune that gave an advantage to Rosberg in the title fight, where there was no one else to capitalize other than Rosberg. Which put him in to drivers' seat in 2014 and 2016 and made Lewis to chase. Yet, somehow the statements like Lewis always did not perform under pressure is used loosely without putting things into context. In 2015, when Lewis did not suffer any misfortune, Rosberg looked like absolute nobody through the season.

Rosberg, just like Bottas' situation today, was a star fighting with Lewis, when there was no one else on the grid to challenge Mercedes. Otherwise, Rosberg's fate would have been pretty much like that of Bottas' in 2017/18.

Phil
397
User avatar
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 3:22 pm

Re: 2019 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by Phil » Tue May 14, 2019 5:10 pm

Perhaps my error was that I singled out Hamilton in that sentence. Humans make mistakes under pressure. How much pressure there is, depends usually on circumstance and who you are facing, or the strength of your opponent. In 2014, one of the big issues Hamilton was facing was that he often didn't deliver (beat) his team-mate on his first run in Q3. In 2015, he managed to change that. This had a big effect on how the second run could be approached in Q3.

I'm not hitting at Lewis here. I'm simply stating the obvious. Fact of the matter is, he has been outqualified by Bottas 3 times in a row. That's no small feat, as we all know. And if we look at last year, even when Lewis outqualified Bottas, margins weren't always that big (especially at the start of the season).

Bottas for the first time in his 3 seasons with Lewis is on a run and probably believes he can challenge Lewis. Self-belief and success (in the form of outqualifying Lewis and actually winning races or leading the championship) can go a long way in carrying momentum and continuing strong performance. At worst - in a two horse race, assuming it continues this way - will see only 7 point swings. This will be Bottas main benefit, as it was Rosbergs in the years 2014 to 2016.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
#Team44 supporter