2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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diffuser
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Joined: 07 Sep 2012, 13:55
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Re: 2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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RonDennis wrote:
14 Jul 2019, 22:42
diffuser wrote:
14 Jul 2019, 22:35
taperoo2k wrote:
14 Jul 2019, 22:27


A customer engine deal is the best McLaren can hope for until the engine regulations
change and they can attract a manufacturer to partner with them in a works deal.
I'd definitely swap the Renault PU for a Mercedes PU if the option is there.
As for EJ ? He's got a few stories right in the past, but we'll see.

If you don't get the chassis design correct then you'll be in heaps of
trouble no matter if you've got the best or worst engine on the grid in
the back of the car. McLaren have turned their fortunes around, so a change
in PU shouldn't pose too much of a problem if it's for 2020. A mid season swap
might be more problematic but the changes the team has made should
see them through it.
If Merc pull out of F1, what makes you so sure they'll keep up the investment in the PU?
If Renault pull out of F1, what makes you so sure they'll keep up the investment in the PU?
Some of the chatter I was reading here was that Merc were gonna focus on FE and turn mclaren into their works team. Only reason why I mentioned that.

I done with this wild speculation now anyways.

RonDennis
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Joined: 24 Oct 2017, 00:56

Re: 2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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diffuser wrote:
14 Jul 2019, 22:52
RonDennis wrote:
14 Jul 2019, 22:42
diffuser wrote:
14 Jul 2019, 22:35


If Merc pull out of F1, what makes you so sure they'll keep up the investment in the PU?
If Renault pull out of F1, what makes you so sure they'll keep up the investment in the PU?
Some of the chatter I was reading here was that Merc were gonna focus on FE and turn mclaren into their works team. Only reason why I mentioned that.

I done with this wild speculation now anyways.
I doubt it. F1 is probably their cheapest marketing campaign they ever had.

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Jackles-UK
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Joined: 06 Mar 2012, 06:02

Re: 2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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McLaren Mercedes re-marriage makes a lot of sense in some ways, not least because having their engines propping up the field with Williams & RP isn’t a great look for the PR machine at Mercedes HQ. As some have said here already, if you have an opportunity at the best all-round engine in F1 you don’t turn it down lightly.

Equally though, McLaren and Renault seem to have a good relationship right now and no other team (particularly Mercedes) would be willing to take McLaren advice on the PU development like Renault do now. We saw the vitriol when Red Bull announced an end to their Renault contract last year and I doubt whether McLaren want to get embroiled in that sort of thing as well.

Personally I think EJ is talking bluster but he was the first to hang his hat on the Hamilton to Mercedes move back in late-2012 when nobody else believed it so maybe he’s due an exclusive scoop!

PhillipM
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Re: 2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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He also hung his hat on Mclaren fitting Mercedes engines back when they signed the Renault deal to swap from Honda so....

Ground Effect
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Joined: 02 Mar 2018, 12:39

Re: 2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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RonDennis wrote:
14 Jul 2019, 22:37
Ground Effect wrote:
14 Jul 2019, 21:37
RonDennis wrote:
14 Jul 2019, 20:19


It's your interpretation. Mercedes said that they couldn't supply a fourth team, which meant that Renault was their only option. The article you linked even states that Renault is "open to their suggestion", not that they will have any influence on the design based on the contract.

https://www.espn.com/f1/story/_/id/2188 ... es-mclaren
I think you’re not starting from the beginning. McLaren started making moves to ditch Honda during Barcelona pre season tests of 2017. They were trying to see if they would get the Mercedes deal, then change engines a couple of months into the season, the rules allow it, by the way. Supply would not have been an issue because Mercedes had already made provisions for Manor, who had hoped to be on the grid, up until early 2017 they were trying to be rescued. But they stuck with Honda and the question of a 4th team arose for 2018 when McLaren were looking for the 2018 switch.
James Allen had reported that Mansour Ojjeh was relying on the good relationship he had over the years with the Mercedes boss to secure the Manor allocation for 2017, but the works status request made it a non starter. Of course that was not the official reason given, as you can imagine. There were articles on it, like below

https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/39290908
You're constantly talking about a works status, but you haven't shown one source for that story. There are no differences between the engines and modes these days, so what would be the advantage of that so called "works status".
I thought I mentioned James Allen? This was mentioned by him on his F1 blog in a comment section as a response to a poster. I’m sorry I can’t provide the actual link, as it wasn’t an article in itself, but a response on a comment from an article regarding pre season testing and the problems McLaren Honda were facing in 2017. There was no “McLaren asks Mercedes for works status” article. But he definitely made that statement. Whatever logic or details of McLaren wanting works status or a works level deal I don’t know, but like I said, it was in 2017 and has no bearing on EJ’s latest comment and back then in 2017 the FIA hadn’t closed up all loopholes and insisted on 100% parity in fuel, lubricants and engine modes. Maybe the updated engine rules leaves their request and line of thinking redundant. Maybe their request also included input in design and layout, I don’t know either. But I can assure you, my remarks on works status aren’t a work of fiction, it was 100% on Allen’s blog. I’m sure you know, James Allen moderates the F1 drivers and team principals press conference and is a respected journalist, I believe he won’t make a statement without verifying.
Q: (Stefano Mancini – La Stampa) Kimi, will you help Vettel to win his championship this year?
Kimi Raikkonen: I can only drive one car, obviously. 
@2018 Singapore Grand Prix drivers press conference.

zoroastar
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Joined: 31 Aug 2017, 08:04

Re: 2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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Ground Effect wrote:
14 Jul 2019, 17:06
SmallSoldier wrote:
14 Jul 2019, 17:03
Darth-Piekus wrote:Wasn't the new floor an update or something or was it a small one and we expect a big one in Germany?

Also this rule in Q2 is really pathetic.
I actually like the rule... It does spice things up in the midfield, since it could be a handicap.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
The midfield hardly needs spicing up, it leaves the guys pushing for P7-10 exposed and at the bigger disadvantage, so what’s the point? If the rule brought the front closer to the midfield, then it would be brilliant, but it doesn’t. The top 6 ride off into the sunset, away from the midfield, irrespective of tyre choice.
they should give 1 point to every driver that makes q3. then it would at least pay to qualify 8th-10th on the grid.

NiyolHuayra
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Joined: 19 Feb 2019, 09:40

Re: 2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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Can we please stop with the Mercedes speculations? McLaren are clearly happy with Renault. Why fix something that isn't broken? As for 2021 and beyond we will see about that in due time.

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_cerber1
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Re: 2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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According to AMuS, Renault is inferior to Mercedes and Ferrari, a little more than 10 hp. It makes no sense to change the engine, with such a slight backlog.

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Vasconia
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Re: 2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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bauc wrote:
14 Jul 2019, 17:07
Great race by SAI again, we kept 6th from RIC, and an unlucky SC timing for LAN who was brilliant today especially lap 1. Overall i'm pleased with our performance today, but there is still a lot work needed to keep 4th in constructors as I think we were neck & neck with Renault today.
Next race should be fine if Carlos has a good qualy. Thankfully his race pace is being impressive and his defense was awesome. Too bad that Land had some back luck.

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bauc
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Re: 2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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Vasconia wrote:
15 Jul 2019, 08:33
bauc wrote:
14 Jul 2019, 17:07
Great race by SAI again, we kept 6th from RIC, and an unlucky SC timing for LAN who was brilliant today especially lap 1. Overall i'm pleased with our performance today, but there is still a lot work needed to keep 4th in constructors as I think we were neck & neck with Renault today.
Next race should be fine if Carlos has a good qualy. Thankfully his race pace is being impressive and his defense was awesome. Too bad that Land had some back luck.
Agreed
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Lucky
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Re: 2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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_cerber1 wrote:
15 Jul 2019, 08:07
According to AMuS, Renault is inferior to Mercedes and Ferrari, a little more than 10 hp. It makes no sense to change the engine, with such a slight backlog.
In 2021, Renault may again have problems. If there is a possibility you need to take a Mercedes.

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_cerber1
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Re: 2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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Lucky wrote:
15 Jul 2019, 09:08
In 2021, Renault may again have problems. If there is a possibility you need to take a Mercedes.
As I understand it, the rules will be the same as now. Why does Renault have problems?

Lucky
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Joined: 15 Feb 2014, 09:23

Re: 2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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_cerber1 wrote:
15 Jul 2019, 09:37
Lucky wrote:
15 Jul 2019, 09:08
In 2021, Renault may again have problems. If there is a possibility you need to take a Mercedes.
As I understand it, the rules will be the same as now. Why does Renault have problems?
rules can change. will increase fuel consumption and can start problems with reliability and power

M840TR
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Joined: 13 Apr 2018, 21:04

Re: 2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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Lucky wrote:
15 Jul 2019, 09:46
_cerber1 wrote:
15 Jul 2019, 09:37
Lucky wrote:
15 Jul 2019, 09:08
In 2021, Renault may again have problems. If there is a possibility you need to take a Mercedes.
As I understand it, the rules will be the same as now. Why does Renault have problems?
rules can change. will increase fuel consumption and can start problems with reliability and power
The v6 formula is here to stay for 2021 onward and that's the crucial factor. Fuel flow rate increase - or what I believe you're referring to by fuel consumption - doesn't bear any significant effect on reliability and even if it did they've shown this year that they can keep up with the top 2; the PU has had solid reliability since Spain and the power gap is the narrowest it's ever been in the Hybrid era.

Lucky
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Joined: 15 Feb 2014, 09:23

Re: 2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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M840TR wrote:
15 Jul 2019, 14:31
Lucky wrote:
15 Jul 2019, 09:46
_cerber1 wrote:
15 Jul 2019, 09:37


As I understand it, the rules will be the same as now. Why does Renault have problems?
rules can change. will increase fuel consumption and can start problems with reliability and power
The v6 formula is here to stay for 2021 onward and that's the crucial factor. Fuel flow rate increase - or what I believe you're referring to by fuel consumption - doesn't bear any significant effect on reliability and even if it did they've shown this year that they can keep up with the top 2; the PU has had solid reliability since Spain and the power gap is the narrowest it's ever been in the Hybrid era.
Now such rules
5.1.4 Fuel mass flow must not exceed 100kg/h
Changes at 110 kg / h can greatly add problems.

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