Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
Alexf1
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Alexf1 » Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:38 pm

How can they be in the rev limiter around 345 when maximum speeds in the race gives 357 on FIA.com? Downtuned engine revs after Kvyat retirement?

NL_Fer
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by NL_Fer » Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:47 pm

It doesn’t look like a real rev limiter, more sort of calibration how much (ers/mgu-k) is available. If you look at the straights into Ascari and Parabolica, the rpm seems to level out at the same speeds every lap.

Maybe the ecu just deactivates mgu-k at certain speeds, when further acceleration has no gain in laptime.

toraabe
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by toraabe » Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:08 pm

They have the same final drive as mercedes. Ferrari and mclaren. At 300 kp/h they all revs around 10800. At Mexico they occasionally reach 13000.

gruntguru
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by gruntguru » Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:44 pm

Perhaps the problem is not rev limiter but running above the power band? 350 kph would be 12,600 rpm if 300 is 10,800.
je suis charlie

toraabe
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by toraabe » Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:14 am

Yes. But this is the best solution. The reason is that they need to be able to reach target top speed on most tracks in 8.th gear. Last year the Renault had a way too long final drive in which made the 8.th gear less useful.

GhostF1
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by GhostF1 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:20 am

I think it was mapping based because Max hit 357 during the race early on, and he came on the radio saying he had the same problem as in qualifying and lost power. His engineer said "yep we see it, power should be coming back though, keep an eye on the... well you know what to look for".
So they are definitely keeping something under wraps, how the PU is operated or what its doing. Power came back but the engine would not exceed 12,300rpm. Which kept him at 342ish, hence stuck behind Perez.
And apparently Jos said the issue has been sorted and won't happen at the next race recently on TV.

loner
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by loner » Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:29 am

maguetox wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:23 pm
If I understand correctly, it will depend of the situation, and in Monza with the tow the final gear maybe was a little short.
If the problem is the final gear, Mexico will be a place where RBR can have a serious problem.
why Mexico ?!!
para bellum.

godlameroso
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by godlameroso » Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:28 pm

GhostF1 wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:20 am
I think it was mapping based because Max hit 357 during the race early on, and he came on the radio saying he had the same problem as in qualifying and lost power. His engineer said "yep we see it, power should be coming back though, keep an eye on the... well you know what to look for".
So they are definitely keeping something under wraps, how the PU is operated or what its doing. Power came back but the engine would not exceed 12,300rpm. Which kept him at 342ish, hence stuck behind Perez.
And apparently Jos said the issue has been sorted and won't happen at the next race recently on TV.
New fuel wasn't ready, should be ready for Singapore. Although they may revert back to spec 2 as there aren't any long straights. New fuel gives a bit more power and combustion stability.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

Wouter
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Wouter » Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:36 pm

godlameroso wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:28 pm
GhostF1 wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:20 am
I think it was mapping based because Max hit 357 during the race early on, and he came on the radio saying he had the same problem as in qualifying and lost power. His engineer said "yep we see it, power should be coming back though, keep an eye on the... well you know what to look for".
So they are definitely keeping something under wraps, how the PU is operated or what its doing. Power came back but the engine would not exceed 12,300rpm. Which kept him at 342ish, hence stuck behind Perez.
And apparently Jos said the issue has been sorted and won't happen at the next race recently on TV.
New fuel wasn't ready, should be ready for Singapore. Although they may revert back to spec 2 as there aren't any long straights. New fuel gives a bit more power and combustion stability.
The new fuel is tailored to the new spec 4/5. If they start using it, they will not drive the spec 2.

daniellammers
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by daniellammers » Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:10 pm

godlameroso wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:28 pm
GhostF1 wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:20 am
I think it was mapping based because Max hit 357 during the race early on, and he came on the radio saying he had the same problem as in qualifying and lost power. His engineer said "yep we see it, power should be coming back though, keep an eye on the... well you know what to look for".
So they are definitely keeping something under wraps, how the PU is operated or what its doing. Power came back but the engine would not exceed 12,300rpm. Which kept him at 342ish, hence stuck behind Perez.
And apparently Jos said the issue has been sorted and won't happen at the next race recently on TV.
New fuel wasn't ready, should be ready for Singapore. Although they may revert back to spec 2 as there aren't any long straights. New fuel gives a bit more power and combustion stability.
Genuine question: how do you know this stuff?
You won't catch me driving a race car that I have built.

- Colin Chapman

godlameroso
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by godlameroso » Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:48 pm

daniellammers wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:10 pm
godlameroso wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:28 pm
GhostF1 wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:20 am
I think it was mapping based because Max hit 357 during the race early on, and he came on the radio saying he had the same problem as in qualifying and lost power. His engineer said "yep we see it, power should be coming back though, keep an eye on the... well you know what to look for".
So they are definitely keeping something under wraps, how the PU is operated or what its doing. Power came back but the engine would not exceed 12,300rpm. Which kept him at 342ish, hence stuck behind Perez.
And apparently Jos said the issue has been sorted and won't happen at the next race recently on TV.
New fuel wasn't ready, should be ready for Singapore. Although they may revert back to spec 2 as there aren't any long straights. New fuel gives a bit more power and combustion stability.
Genuine question: how do you know this stuff?
Just stuff I hear along the way.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

godlameroso
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Location: Miami FL

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by godlameroso » Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:51 pm

Wouter wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:36 pm
godlameroso wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:28 pm
GhostF1 wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:20 am
I think it was mapping based because Max hit 357 during the race early on, and he came on the radio saying he had the same problem as in qualifying and lost power. His engineer said "yep we see it, power should be coming back though, keep an eye on the... well you know what to look for".
So they are definitely keeping something under wraps, how the PU is operated or what its doing. Power came back but the engine would not exceed 12,300rpm. Which kept him at 342ish, hence stuck behind Perez.
And apparently Jos said the issue has been sorted and won't happen at the next race recently on TV.
New fuel wasn't ready, should be ready for Singapore. Although they may revert back to spec 2 as there aren't any long straights. New fuel gives a bit more power and combustion stability.
The new fuel is tailored to the new spec 4/5. If they start using it, they will not drive the spec 2.
They could, the general concept of the power unit isn't fantastically different that the new fuel couldn't benefit the older spec. But it won't be as big a gain as on the new spec, granted we are talking maybe 10-15hp difference.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

Wouter
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Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Wouter » Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:55 pm

godlameroso wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:48 pm
daniellammers wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:10 pm
godlameroso wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:28 pm


New fuel wasn't ready, should be ready for Singapore. Although they may revert back to spec 2 as there aren't any long straights. New fuel gives a bit more power and combustion stability.
Genuine question: how do you know this stuff?
Just stuff I hear along the way.
"Along the way" is very vague. Are you talking about insiders?
Do you have connections with employees of Honda / ExxonMobil / RBR?

godlameroso
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by godlameroso » Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:14 pm

Wouter wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:55 pm
godlameroso wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:48 pm
daniellammers wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:10 pm


Genuine question: how do you know this stuff?
Just stuff I hear along the way.
"Along the way" is very vague. Are you talking about insiders?
Do you have connections with employees of Honda / ExxonMobil / RBR?
Channeling Sochiro Honda's ghost :mrgreen:

You don't have to believe me or my sources, judge me by the accuracy of my statements.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

Mudflap
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Mudflap » Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:29 pm

you also seem to (attempt) to predict qualy lap times, weather etc.
any good tips on horse racing ?
How much TQ does it make though?