2019 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, 27 - 29 September

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NathanOlder
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Joined: 02 Mar 2012, 10:05
Location: Kent

Re: 2019 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, 27 - 29 September

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F1NAC wrote:
30 Sep 2019, 08:30
Restomaniac wrote:
30 Sep 2019, 08:15
dominaze wrote:
30 Sep 2019, 06:34
I'm a merc fan but I'm really puzzled at how Ferrari is handling things. What's the point of such a pre-race agreement? I mean, they were both on softer tyres and a better starting line plus a much better ERS. Seb was going anyways to pass Lewis before being towed; which what actually happened. I won't blame him for taking the opportunity. We all know Charles setup his car for mostly qualifying performance and Seb is rather going the other way around. The scenario happened quite several times during the first half of the season where the faster ferrari car was held up behind the slower one with potential undercut from rival teams. If they want to maximize points, this is clearly the way to go imo
I guess they were trying to get LeClerc back on side.
Vettel has a habit of not holding his end of the bargain up in such events though. A hard lesson that LeClerc has now had to learn and I doubt he will fall foul of trusting Vettel again.

What is the point slowing down when Hamilton was barely 2 seconds of Leclerc? Where is the gap for Vettel? And after that limping behind slower Ferrari and runing his tyres after all. It's not dirty play. It's logical one. Common sense. We could say same for Leclerc. Deal was in their last Q3 run in monza to tow Vettel, Leclerc was hesitating and in the end Vettel lost the lap and tow (well that sh*tshow also played its hand)
1 year ago, Merc switched their 2 cars, while Vettel was only 1.5 seconds behind. So when on lap 7, Leclerc was 1.0 behind Vettel, and Hamilton was 3.1 behind . So there was plenty of space!
GoLandoGo
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King George has arrived.

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izzy
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Joined: 26 May 2019, 22:28

Re: 2019 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, 27 - 29 September

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dans79 wrote:
30 Sep 2019, 10:40
izzy wrote:
30 Sep 2019, 10:35
F1NAC makes a great point, that Charles started it, with not giving Seb his tow in Monza
Oh, so what you're saying is that they act like five year olds, lovely.

Ferraris biggest issue, is that their managing staff is inept. Instead of focusing on improving their team, its main objective seems to be trying to embarrass Mercedes.
well racing drivers are basically trying to score points off each other all the time, that's what they're like :mrgreen:

Mattia 'forgave' Charles after Monza so he'd obviously been in trouble over it. But just like Multi21 Seb didn't get mad he got even :twisted: . Red Bull couldn't handle them, or Max & Dan in Baku, and nor could Mercedes handle it when Rosberg outrageously cheated Lewis in Monaco and Spa when they should really have just chucked Rosberg out but instead they left it and it was war for 3 years.

teams all find it difficult i think, pampering the yes 5 year olds and cherishing their sensitive egos while they try desperately to go round in circles the fastest :lol: . What Mattia does now I don't know, but he nuked Seb with the undercut so he can send a message i think

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SiLo
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Re: 2019 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, 27 - 29 September

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Really the issue is that they had a plan that both drivers agreed on and then as soon as they were asked to execute one of them basically said no. Either have a plan and stick to it, or have no plan at all.

Mercedes have swapped drivers before, Bottas has let Hamilton go quite a lot, Hamilton has swapped back with him as well before (Hungary). This has usually been done to secure more points for the championship leader, or to secure the race win for the team. The only time I remember it not happening was Hungary back in 2014, but even then they were already miles ahead in the championship.

The first issue was caused by Vettel, the second was by Ferrari trying to manipulate the strategy into getting Charles in front. They should have just accepted Vettel wasn't going to move over and dealt with it after the race in private. For the oldest team on the grid, they are far from having the maturity that Mercedes has as a team.
Felipe Baby!

ubuysa
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Joined: 14 Apr 2019, 13:39

Re: 2019 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, 27 - 29 September

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DChemTech wrote:
30 Sep 2019, 08:50
F1NAC wrote:
29 Sep 2019, 22:03
DChemTech wrote:
29 Sep 2019, 15:29


Driver: "i think I have a puncture, picked up some of Romain's debris"

Engineer: "well, yeah, sorry, we can't pit you while the safety car is out. Hang on for a few laps!"

There is an obvious issue with this idea, I'd say.
Red light at the end of the pitlane. Till whole pack passes
That sounds absolutely horrible. Instate a mandatory pitstop duration during safety situation then. But still I'd rather just keep the current situation.
I don't get all this 'ban pit stops under VSC/SC', it's part of racing. Sure, Mercedes benefited hugely when Seb stopped just at the right time for them, and quite probably only won because of that, but didn't it make the race more exciting?

In any case, Leclerc on fresh softs was never going to pass Bottas, he clearly gave up with 8 or 9 laps still to go. So much for being a tough racer....

Manoah2u
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Re: 2019 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, 27 - 29 September

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Vettel had a magnificent start, as he said himself, he would have had LeClerc easy.
I rather doubt LeClerc 'gave' him slipstream, i mean come on, it's not like he's got a lever to pull to stop it.

Any car gets slipstream like that. Look at even the Mclaren overtaking Hamilton.
Immediately after Vettel passed LeClerc he blazed off in the distance with no way that LeClerc could keep up.
I was actually pleased to see 'classic' Vettel back.

This public bittering through the radio was embarassing.

What did Vettel need to do? Slow down and let LeClerc pass? then what?!
i mean for real, he lets LeClerc pass, who couldn't keep up with Vettel's pace,
and then Vettel needs to be stuck behind a slower LeClerc and give the race to the Mercs?

Vettel got ahead far enough to have little to no influence of his wake, that would have been vastly different
for Seb if he needed to get LeClerc to pass.

They would lose about 2 seconds of valuable lead.

It happened during the start for crying out , it's not like Hamilton had such a good start that he was alongside LeClerc and that
then Vettel benefitted from LeClerc's slipstream so they could block Hamilton.
I don't know what's going on at the pitwall of Ferrari but something's hugely wrong there.

Then they kept Vettel out in the dry despite him being the leading driver on P1 for godsake. The pitstop wasn't that fast either.
Then LeClerc passed on a track where the undercut doesn't really work that well, so it was surely partially forced.

Which ultimately, conspiracy mode on, makes me wonder whether they didn't tinker a bit with Vettel's settings and engine modes
for a moment so he wouldnt gain on LeClerc. The K failure was weird to me and too coincidental, not to mention that when Vettel
came out of the pits full speed he wasn't that far behind LeClerc but that gap quickly grew.
Which, if so, is absolutely diabolical and quite frankly, ruined Ferrari's race completely as Vettel's DNF caused the perfect moment
to pit and as such give the Mercs track advantage.

Worse even was that they then kept LeClerc out.

Ferrari ruined a race where they should have been an easy 1-2 and dominate. now they cracked, they lost a race, and motivation will
undoubtedly be lessened.

It really should have been without a single doubt P1 Vettel P2 LeClerc P3 Hamilton.

Hell, they could have done the swap later on in the race anyway.

What are they thinking? Surely not that Vettel or even LeClerc still have a chance for the WDC????
Have Ferrari decided to put their eggs in the LeClerc basket and try to beat Bottas or Hamilton?
If they're aiming to beat Bottas, fine, that's really not that far out of reach for the remainder of the season.
36 points to gain over Valterri is not unfathomable over the remaining 5 races, but exactly by these lousy decisions they throw even that away.

Hamilton is far out of reach, not just for Vettel - who surely knows this and was just racing for the win, as he's got all the right to do so - but Hamilton
is about 110 points ahead in the WDC and there is no way i can see him gaining 110 points over Lewis in the next 5 GP's, that's going to be 22 points each race.
Neither do i see Lewis have a non-points finish or DNF for 4 races to come so honestly, that ship has sailed.

Either way, Seb has as much right to go for the win to beat Max in the standings as much as Charles would have to beat Bottas.

One thing to concider too is that the failure of Vettel's engine is interesting to think about in regards to Ferrari's sudden 'leap' in performance.
It's been speculated that it has to do with the eletric part of the hybrid engine, and it's exactly that which gave way.
I wonder whether Ferrari have swapped reliablity for performance and that it's coming back to bite them.
LeClerc for example really wanted to get a fast lap and really had to cool down for that. Could be that heat is vastly more of an influence to the Ferrari.
They won't have that trouble during Qually, as it's just a short lap burst.

Sky commentated that it would be unwise to go for such a fastest lap risk as the engine needs to not only make the Sochi race, but the next 2 aswell if i'm not mistaken.
I wonder what reliability might do to LeClerc's car in the upcoming races.

That said, i agree that Vettel was driver of the day. Without a doubt he drove his ass off and did so magnificently.
Also did like his comment about getting back V12's. Yes dude, absolutely. Imagine the 2021 cars with V12's. man.

Anyway, apart from that, some other things to concider from this race.

I am hugely worried about Williams and the state they're in again. Russell's brake failure was dangerous imagine if that happened with higher velocity.
It reminded me a LOT of the brake failure of the HRT's years ago, which was due to excessive wear. I hope i'm overreacting, but the fact they have also preventively
retired Kubica makes me wonder.

Also impressed with Albon. He drove absolutely fantastic and showed once again he is worthy of that RBR seat. In total contrast with Gasly, who tried to imply he's still a good racer by engaging in 'combat' with said Albon but was a lost cause from the start, and then absolutely bonkers battles against Kvyat in his teammate's HOME GP for crying out loud.
He almost collected with Kvyat and on more than one occasion got off track. Dude is out of touch.

As for Raikkonen, i understand his penalty as it was a false start, however you put it, and even though the penalty is correct to the rulebook, the thing is, he completely neutralized that false start as he noticed it immediately. it's not like he took that false start and kept going. neither was it a milisecond false start with an advantage. I rather think he made a mistake somewhere (perhaps touched the wrong button) but he made a full stop and everybody passed him. he was on the back foot immediately. it was then 'overkill' to still persue that penalty. I think that for this instance, the situation allowed very much for leaniance and leave it as 'will be investigated after the race' and then give him a superlicense points penalty reprimand.

Mclarens were doing pretty good too.

Let's see what happens in Japan. That's gonna be a much more classic race and show much better the pecking order.
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"

f1316
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Joined: 22 Feb 2012, 18:36

Re: 2019 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, 27 - 29 September

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TAG wrote:
30 Sep 2019, 02:33
With the 1-2 today and Ferrari's one DNF, Mercedes actually gave themselves a shot at clinching their 6th world title in Suzuka. They'd have to outscore Ferrari by 10 or more points.
That’s interesting - didn’t realise that.

That said, the damage was done in the first half of the season - it’s a hell of a thing that Ferrari could have won all the races after the break and still been quite far away from both world championships.

What’s important though - and imo more so than who wins or loses these remaining races of the season, given they’re all but non-championship races at this point - is the competitive picture with no rule changes on the table for next year. I think it’s clear that Mercedes , knowing this season was already a lock, moved all development over to next year, but nevertheless the difference made to the Ferrari by the Singapore updates is so significant that it shows it was only ever lacking a fairly small margin in order to get the car in the right ‘window’. It validates the pre-season testing form, which until this point had just seemed to be an illusion.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but 2020 is the first year in a long time where technically you can pretty much turn up with the 2019 car and race that until your new car is ready (like they often would in the 2000’s and was general practice going further back) so having a good car this year will be directly relevant to next year. Given that the Ferrari now even seems to have good race pace, this is a very important sign for next year.

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Juzh
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Re: 2019 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, 27 - 29 September

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Manoah2u wrote:
30 Sep 2019, 11:40
Then they kept Vettel out in the dry despite him being the leading driver on P1 for godsake. The pitstop wasn't that fast either.
Then LeClerc passed on a track where the undercut doesn't really work that well, so it was surely partially forced.
You can freely drop the word "partially" from that last sentence. Leclerc confirmed in an interview it was all orchestrated by ferrari:
https://youtu.be/LG3E5SEK9Vg?t=479

Manoah2u
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Joined: 24 Feb 2013, 14:07

Re: 2019 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, 27 - 29 September

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Juzh wrote:
30 Sep 2019, 12:40
Manoah2u wrote:
30 Sep 2019, 11:40
Then they kept Vettel out in the dry despite him being the leading driver on P1 for godsake. The pitstop wasn't that fast either.
Then LeClerc passed on a track where the undercut doesn't really work that well, so it was surely partially forced.
You can freely drop the word "partially" from that last sentence. Leclerc confirmed in an interview it was all orchestrated by ferrari:
https://youtu.be/LG3E5SEK9Vg?t=479
yeah thought so.

interesting comments about Vettel that he had no power immediately after the pitstop. I honestly can't help but wonder whether during the pitstop they didn't change the settings on the car. They can remotely anyway, just look at the fact Leclarc asked them to give them more/everything. And that it backfired on them. I'm not into too conspriacy stuff here, but something just really feels off.
I also like Vettel's interview right before. "Yeah 'im not ignorant' so we have to talk about that."
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"

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Juzh
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Re: 2019 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, 27 - 29 September

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Manoah2u wrote:
30 Sep 2019, 12:44
Juzh wrote:
30 Sep 2019, 12:40
Manoah2u wrote:
30 Sep 2019, 11:40
Then they kept Vettel out in the dry despite him being the leading driver on P1 for godsake. The pitstop wasn't that fast either.
Then LeClerc passed on a track where the undercut doesn't really work that well, so it was surely partially forced.
You can freely drop the word "partially" from that last sentence. Leclerc confirmed in an interview it was all orchestrated by ferrari:
https://youtu.be/LG3E5SEK9Vg?t=479
interesting comments about Vettel that he had no power immediately after the pitstop. I honestly can't help but wonder whether during the pitstop they didn't change the settings on the car. They can remotely anyway, just look at the fact Leclarc asked them to give them more/everything. And that it backfired on them. I'm not into too conspriacy stuff here, but something just really feels off.
Pit to car telemetry of any kind is forbidden since ages ago. What drivers mean by "I want everything" and so on is whether or not they themselves in the car are allowed or not to change some switches to higher engines modes or something else beneficial to performance of the car.

izzy
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Joined: 26 May 2019, 22:28

Re: 2019 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, 27 - 29 September

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Manoah2u wrote:
30 Sep 2019, 12:44

interesting comments about Vettel that he had no power immediately after the pitstop. I honestly can't help but wonder whether during the pitstop they didn't change the settings on the car. They can remotely anyway, just look at the fact Leclarc asked them to give them more/everything. And that it backfired on them. I'm not into too conspriacy stuff here, but something just really feels off.
I also like Vettel's interview right before. "Yeah 'im not ignorant' so we have to talk about that."
they're not allowed to transmit any data to the car, it's just about permission for the driver to make changes (edit as Juzh says)

Anyway on the general issue i thought it was pretty obvious Charles left space for Seb on his right on the run down to T2, and then that Seb was kidding himself that his start and tow made it okay not to swap, and that Ferrari were always then going to fix it over the stops. And that Charles started it in Monza Q.

But it was always going to be good for Mercedes, and probably will be again :)

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Shrieker
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Re: 2019 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, 27 - 29 September

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Restomaniac wrote:
29 Sep 2019, 23:14
This conversation started after a whiny bitch on Sky started crying. It’s happened numerous times before and nobody has said a god damn word. Yet suddenly now it’s an issue.
It should've started far eariler, it definitely crossed my mind to open a thread about it (if it wasn't by someone else already), but I was too lazy about it.
Education is that which allows a nation free, independent, reputable life, and function as a high society; or it condemns it to captivity and poverty.
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ferkan
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Re: 2019 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, 27 - 29 September

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Manoah2u wrote:
30 Sep 2019, 11:40
Vettel had a magnificent start, as he said himself, he would have had LeClerc easy.
I rather doubt LeClerc 'gave' him slipstream, i mean come on, it's not like he's got a lever to pull to stop it.

Any car gets slipstream like that. Look at even the Mclaren overtaking Hamilton.
Immediately after Vettel passed LeClerc he blazed off in the distance with no way that LeClerc could keep up.
I was actually pleased to see 'classic' Vettel back.

This public bittering through the radio was embarassing.

What did Vettel need to do? Slow down and let LeClerc pass? then what?!
i mean for real, he lets LeClerc pass, who couldn't keep up with Vettel's pace,
and then Vettel needs to be stuck behind a slower LeClerc and give the race to the Mercs?

Vettel got ahead far enough to have little to no influence of his wake, that would have been vastly different
for Seb if he needed to get LeClerc to pass.

They would lose about 2 seconds of valuable lead.

It happened during the start for crying out , it's not like Hamilton had such a good start that he was alongside LeClerc and that
then Vettel benefitted from LeClerc's slipstream so they could block Hamilton.
I don't know what's going on at the pitwall of Ferrari but something's hugely wrong there.

Then they kept Vettel out in the dry despite him being the leading driver on P1 for godsake. The pitstop wasn't that fast either.
Then LeClerc passed on a track where the undercut doesn't really work that well, so it was surely partially forced.

Which ultimately, conspiracy mode on, makes me wonder whether they didn't tinker a bit with Vettel's settings and engine modes
for a moment so he wouldnt gain on LeClerc. The K failure was weird to me and too coincidental, not to mention that when Vettel
came out of the pits full speed he wasn't that far behind LeClerc but that gap quickly grew.
Which, if so, is absolutely diabolical and quite frankly, ruined Ferrari's race completely as Vettel's DNF caused the perfect moment
to pit and as such give the Mercs track advantage.

Worse even was that they then kept LeClerc out.

Ferrari ruined a race where they should have been an easy 1-2 and dominate. now they cracked, they lost a race, and motivation will
undoubtedly be lessened.

It really should have been without a single doubt P1 Vettel P2 LeClerc P3 Hamilton.

Hell, they could have done the swap later on in the race anyway.

What are they thinking? Surely not that Vettel or even LeClerc still have a chance for the WDC????
Have Ferrari decided to put their eggs in the LeClerc basket and try to beat Bottas or Hamilton?
If they're aiming to beat Bottas, fine, that's really not that far out of reach for the remainder of the season.
36 points to gain over Valterri is not unfathomable over the remaining 5 races, but exactly by these lousy decisions they throw even that away.

Hamilton is far out of reach, not just for Vettel - who surely knows this and was just racing for the win, as he's got all the right to do so - but Hamilton
is about 110 points ahead in the WDC and there is no way i can see him gaining 110 points over Lewis in the next 5 GP's, that's going to be 22 points each race.
Neither do i see Lewis have a non-points finish or DNF for 4 races to come so honestly, that ship has sailed.

Either way, Seb has as much right to go for the win to beat Max in the standings as much as Charles would have to beat Bottas.
So if I get you right, you are saying :

If Vettel has bad start > Give tow to Vettel
If Vettel has good start > Give tow to Vettel and don't fight into T1, as agreed before race

So from Vettel's standpoint, if he gets bad start he will get tow and Charles won't look for inside line to fight them of.
But if he gets good start and Leclerc leaves him into T1, as agreed, he doesn't have to give place back (even though that was agreement), because he got great start.

Makes exactly 0 sense. Vettel shouldn't have agreed to it if he didn't want to give place back, and Leclerc should have known Seb will try to be smart ass and at very least want to prove to everyone he is nr1 and faster driver.

Mattia is mainly at fault because he is trying to orchestrate Ferrari 1-2 with two top drivers. Leclerc nor Vettel are Bottas, and they will NOT yield. His "1-2 is all that matters" may suit Vettel when he is the one that is profiting from it, but he sure as hell won't move or appear weak if it doesn't suit him. 1-2 or not.

Seb said it good "Ferrari is bigger then both of us". He said it when he won, starting 3rd on the grid and undercutting his team mate on street circuit. Yesterday, he really didn't think team was bigger then him.

epo
epo
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Joined: 25 Nov 2012, 19:57

Re: 2019 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, 27 - 29 September

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ferkan wrote:
30 Sep 2019, 13:07
Manoah2u wrote:
30 Sep 2019, 11:40
Vettel had a magnificent start, as he said himself, he would have had LeClerc easy.
I rather doubt LeClerc 'gave' him slipstream, i mean come on, it's not like he's got a lever to pull to stop it.

Any car gets slipstream like that. Look at even the Mclaren overtaking Hamilton.
Immediately after Vettel passed LeClerc he blazed off in the distance with no way that LeClerc could keep up.
I was actually pleased to see 'classic' Vettel back.

This public bittering through the radio was embarassing.

What did Vettel need to do? Slow down and let LeClerc pass? then what?!
i mean for real, he lets LeClerc pass, who couldn't keep up with Vettel's pace,
and then Vettel needs to be stuck behind a slower LeClerc and give the race to the Mercs?

Vettel got ahead far enough to have little to no influence of his wake, that would have been vastly different
for Seb if he needed to get LeClerc to pass.

They would lose about 2 seconds of valuable lead.

It happened during the start for crying out , it's not like Hamilton had such a good start that he was alongside LeClerc and that
then Vettel benefitted from LeClerc's slipstream so they could block Hamilton.
I don't know what's going on at the pitwall of Ferrari but something's hugely wrong there.

Then they kept Vettel out in the dry despite him being the leading driver on P1 for godsake. The pitstop wasn't that fast either.
Then LeClerc passed on a track where the undercut doesn't really work that well, so it was surely partially forced.

Which ultimately, conspiracy mode on, makes me wonder whether they didn't tinker a bit with Vettel's settings and engine modes
for a moment so he wouldnt gain on LeClerc. The K failure was weird to me and too coincidental, not to mention that when Vettel
came out of the pits full speed he wasn't that far behind LeClerc but that gap quickly grew.
Which, if so, is absolutely diabolical and quite frankly, ruined Ferrari's race completely as Vettel's DNF caused the perfect moment
to pit and as such give the Mercs track advantage.

Worse even was that they then kept LeClerc out.

Ferrari ruined a race where they should have been an easy 1-2 and dominate. now they cracked, they lost a race, and motivation will
undoubtedly be lessened.

It really should have been without a single doubt P1 Vettel P2 LeClerc P3 Hamilton.

Hell, they could have done the swap later on in the race anyway.

What are they thinking? Surely not that Vettel or even LeClerc still have a chance for the WDC????
Have Ferrari decided to put their eggs in the LeClerc basket and try to beat Bottas or Hamilton?
If they're aiming to beat Bottas, fine, that's really not that far out of reach for the remainder of the season.
36 points to gain over Valterri is not unfathomable over the remaining 5 races, but exactly by these lousy decisions they throw even that away.

Hamilton is far out of reach, not just for Vettel - who surely knows this and was just racing for the win, as he's got all the right to do so - but Hamilton
is about 110 points ahead in the WDC and there is no way i can see him gaining 110 points over Lewis in the next 5 GP's, that's going to be 22 points each race.
Neither do i see Lewis have a non-points finish or DNF for 4 races to come so honestly, that ship has sailed.

Either way, Seb has as much right to go for the win to beat Max in the standings as much as Charles would have to beat Bottas.

Seb said it good "Ferrari is bigger then both of us". He said it when he won, starting 3rd on the grid and undercutting his team mate on street circuit. Yesterday, he really didn't think team was bigger then him.
Yes he did, by giving away his position he would also give away the time lead they had. Something he also told on the radio, just wait a few laps to we can extend our lead. Leclerc was just too slow, probably tuned his car just for the qualification so race pace would suck compared to Vettel.
Anyways it was Leclerc who think he is bigger then anyone obviously.

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El Scorchio
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Re: 2019 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, 27 - 29 September

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Pitting under VSC- sometimes it works out for certain teams/drivers- sometimes it doesn't. They will all win or lose a few under it. It's an imperfect rule, but at the moment it is THE rule. It's good that it adds some luck/strategy options and unpredictability, but it would be a shame if someone won or lost a title because of it one day. I do wonder how many people who are always moaning about the predictability of the races also moaning about this, every time it happens. Of course it's natural to be annoyed if it happens to the driver you want to win, but it's no basis for changing the rules.

I don't really like VSC, (they could refine it in some ways to keep the timings neutral or do it slightly differently) but we all know it's there to try and lessen the possibility of another Bianchi incident. And you have to ask yourself is it worse that X driver benefits over Y driver, or that someone else (be it driver or steward) maybe loses their life?

ferkan
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Joined: 06 Apr 2015, 20:50

Re: 2019 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, 27 - 29 September

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epo wrote:
30 Sep 2019, 13:18
ferkan wrote:
30 Sep 2019, 13:07
Manoah2u wrote:
30 Sep 2019, 11:40
Vettel had a magnificent start, as he said himself, he would have had LeClerc easy.
I rather doubt LeClerc 'gave' him slipstream, i mean come on, it's not like he's got a lever to pull to stop it.

Any car gets slipstream like that. Look at even the Mclaren overtaking Hamilton.
Immediately after Vettel passed LeClerc he blazed off in the distance with no way that LeClerc could keep up.
I was actually pleased to see 'classic' Vettel back.

This public bittering through the radio was embarassing.

What did Vettel need to do? Slow down and let LeClerc pass? then what?!
i mean for real, he lets LeClerc pass, who couldn't keep up with Vettel's pace,
and then Vettel needs to be stuck behind a slower LeClerc and give the race to the Mercs?

Vettel got ahead far enough to have little to no influence of his wake, that would have been vastly different
for Seb if he needed to get LeClerc to pass.

They would lose about 2 seconds of valuable lead.

It happened during the start for crying out , it's not like Hamilton had such a good start that he was alongside LeClerc and that
then Vettel benefitted from LeClerc's slipstream so they could block Hamilton.
I don't know what's going on at the pitwall of Ferrari but something's hugely wrong there.

Then they kept Vettel out in the dry despite him being the leading driver on P1 for godsake. The pitstop wasn't that fast either.
Then LeClerc passed on a track where the undercut doesn't really work that well, so it was surely partially forced.

Which ultimately, conspiracy mode on, makes me wonder whether they didn't tinker a bit with Vettel's settings and engine modes
for a moment so he wouldnt gain on LeClerc. The K failure was weird to me and too coincidental, not to mention that when Vettel
came out of the pits full speed he wasn't that far behind LeClerc but that gap quickly grew.
Which, if so, is absolutely diabolical and quite frankly, ruined Ferrari's race completely as Vettel's DNF caused the perfect moment
to pit and as such give the Mercs track advantage.

Worse even was that they then kept LeClerc out.

Ferrari ruined a race where they should have been an easy 1-2 and dominate. now they cracked, they lost a race, and motivation will
undoubtedly be lessened.

It really should have been without a single doubt P1 Vettel P2 LeClerc P3 Hamilton.

Hell, they could have done the swap later on in the race anyway.

What are they thinking? Surely not that Vettel or even LeClerc still have a chance for the WDC????
Have Ferrari decided to put their eggs in the LeClerc basket and try to beat Bottas or Hamilton?
If they're aiming to beat Bottas, fine, that's really not that far out of reach for the remainder of the season.
36 points to gain over Valterri is not unfathomable over the remaining 5 races, but exactly by these lousy decisions they throw even that away.

Hamilton is far out of reach, not just for Vettel - who surely knows this and was just racing for the win, as he's got all the right to do so - but Hamilton
is about 110 points ahead in the WDC and there is no way i can see him gaining 110 points over Lewis in the next 5 GP's, that's going to be 22 points each race.
Neither do i see Lewis have a non-points finish or DNF for 4 races to come so honestly, that ship has sailed.

Either way, Seb has as much right to go for the win to beat Max in the standings as much as Charles would have to beat Bottas.

Seb said it good "Ferrari is bigger then both of us". He said it when he won, starting 3rd on the grid and undercutting his team mate on street circuit. Yesterday, he really didn't think team was bigger then him.
Yes he did, by giving away his position he would also give away the time lead they had. Something he also told on the radio, just wait a few laps to we can extend our lead. Leclerc was just too slow, probably tuned his car just for the qualification so race pace would suck compared to Vettel.
Anyways it was Leclerc who think he is bigger then anyone obviously.
Leclerc was 1.6s off by lap 9. Vettel repeatedly didn't want to give him place. He repeatedly said "He should catch up".

Vettel knew exactly what he was doing. You cannot follow a car, especially same one, lap after lap in span of 1.5s for entire stint time if you do not have big pace advantage. Your tires will be gone much quicker then the guy's who drives in clean air.

Vettel DID NOT want to yield place. Just didn't. Thats entire point. He is WDC and there is no way in hell a guy like Vettel will give up a place like that. It was Leclercs own fault he even agreed on this in first place anyway.

We saw how clean Vettel is when he closed off Kimi in China 2018 like he was title contender in different team. When he gets into car, he will do whatever to win. In Singapore he said "Ferrari 1-2 is most important. No body is as big as Ferrari". Here, he didn't want to yield the place as agreed, but later said "I would have taken him anyway".

Well maybe, but Leclerc had no advantage of actually defending because he was following agreement 100%.

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