2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

[diffuser]

I agree with this.

Except mercedes is not the best engine

of course the Merc engine is the best..Ferrari have only recently made strides with the PU but i think that Merc still have the best ICE, where Ferrari have made gains was on the ERS/KERS side

Just change the term "the best" for "Arguably the best" .

[SmallSoldier]

Like I said, you could say that about the other 2 teams.

They could make William's their works team. It would be a win/win. Wolff, a former employee/owner, wanted to return the first team he fell in love with back to the Greatness. The same greatness that the William's name deserves!

Just trying to be objective.

The main flaw in your logic is assuming that this is “Wolf’s” team... At the end of the day, it is the Mercedes board the one that decides... Furthermore, the fact that Wolf was part of Williams would have very little weight in such a decision, since nostalgia isn’t a factor to make a deal like this.

You aren’t been “objective”, so far you haven’t exposed a single reason why the other 2 would be a better candidate for a Mercedes “Works” team... Which is in essence a closer collaboration and giving priority to a team (it isn’t buying the team)... For Mercedes to have a works team, they need to pull out of F1 first (as a Chassis Manufacturer, Racing Team).


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#1 I am being very objective.
#2 on sky sports Wolff said "The last time, they didn't give the PU to McLaren cause Niki said they didn't give it to RBR. Merc should be consistent and not give it to McLaren. The decision is now mine alone."
#3 I don't really believe the William's thing I just threw that out there as a possibility.
#4 I actually believe that this is nothing more than a PU deal. Nothing to do with a works deal. Merc is NOT going anywhere.
#5 I initially threw this out there to the people who thought this was a future works deal for McLaren to try and convince me.

In regards to not supplying to Mclaren the last time, the deal took too long and for it to work, it wasn’t only about Mclaren getting the Mercedes engine, Honda also needed to land a different customer... The deal with Renault, in which Mclaren took their engines and STR took Honda’s (and subsequent potential for RBR to use the Honda engine) was what determined the manufacturer... For Mclaren to split from Honda, Honda had to be part of the deal and with Mercedes, it wouldn’t have happened.

I agree that Today, this isn’t anything else than a PU supplier agreement... But, part of the discussion (pointless probably) was what other benefits it brought to Mercedes, one of those is a potential Works team and no, I doubt Mercedes would chose Racing Point or Williams instead of Mclaren for a Works deal... Loyalty or Nostalgia won’t play a role. In such an event (Mercedes leaves and decides to stay with a Works Team), Mclaren would be the best choice for Mercedes.


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[SmallSoldier]

There is often more than what meets the eye with news like this. From reading through everyone seems to be forgetting about the driver market, except for a few mentions of Norris.

Williams are in dire need of money/performance (aham, and spare parts!). If Williams is somehow brought out by another brand or even partners with a new engine manufacturer should we ever see one then Merc all but guarantees it's lost a seat for Russel.
Racing Point's seats are already locked out with Perez and Stroll.
Merc have junior drivers with potentially (A. nowhere to go. B. No decent place to go)

This deal will most likely 'buy' them a competitive seat for a junior driver and also gives them the possibility to evaluate Norris & Sainz if they do decided to replace Bottas in '21 or if Hamilton leaves the team/sport. Having the potential to evaluate Sainz/Norris/Russel/Ocon/Bottas will certainly come in handy if what they actually want is bargaining chips for Verstappen in '21.

How’s the news of Norris “buying Mercedes a seat”? Or them evaluating Sainz?


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[mwillems]

I think some folks have their tin hats on since this deal.

Well I'm happy to move to Merc for 2021, I hope that Merc are still at the front in PUs by then. Renault and Ferrari seem to be making more gains than Merc this year.

If it is the same next year and 2021 then it's not such a good deal, simple as that.

[KeiKo403]

There is often more than what meets the eye with news like this. From reading through everyone seems to be forgetting about the driver market, except for a few mentions of Norris.

Williams are in dire need of money/performance (aham, and spare parts!). If Williams is somehow brought out by another brand or even partners with a new engine manufacturer should we ever see one then Merc all but guarantees it's lost a seat for Russel.
Racing Point's seats are already locked out with Perez and Stroll.
Merc have junior drivers with potentially (A. nowhere to go. B. No decent place to go)

This deal will most likely 'buy' them a competitive seat for a junior driver and also gives them the possibility to evaluate Norris & Sainz if they do decided to replace Bottas in '21 or if Hamilton leaves the team/sport. Having the potential to evaluate Sainz/Norris/Russel/Ocon/Bottas will certainly come in handy if what they actually want is bargaining chips for Verstappen in '21.

How’s the news of Norris “buying Mercedes a seat”? Or them evaluating Sainz?


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I could've worded that better, sorry. I meant it's potentially Merc 'buying' a seat at McLaren for a junior driver as no point putting one in a Williams and Racing Point is full for some years to come. Merc might need somewhere good to house a driver and it maybe that Norris falls under Toto's (Merc) management.

I didn't say they were evaluating Sainz, I said it gives them the possibility to do so. It was pure speculation on my part, but if they have the opportunity to evaluate him, surely they would.

[M840TR]

I think some folks have their tin hats on since this deal.

Well I'm happy to move to Merc for 2021, I hope that Merc are still at the front in PUs by then. Renault and Ferrari seem to be making more gains than Merc this year.

If it is the same next year and 2021 then it's not such a good deal, simple as that.

Renault made the gains because they were way behind on power. Even now they're behind Merc and not even anywhere near in reliability. 2020 should show a clearer picture of where they stand and Brixworth seems to be confident about its prospects given all the development freeze talk.

[SmallSoldier]

There is often more than what meets the eye with news like this. From reading through everyone seems to be forgetting about the driver market, except for a few mentions of Norris.

Williams are in dire need of money/performance (aham, and spare parts!). If Williams is somehow brought out by another brand or even partners with a new engine manufacturer should we ever see one then Merc all but guarantees it's lost a seat for Russel.
Racing Point's seats are already locked out with Perez and Stroll.
Merc have junior drivers with potentially (A. nowhere to go. B. No decent place to go)

This deal will most likely 'buy' them a competitive seat for a junior driver and also gives them the possibility to evaluate Norris & Sainz if they do decided to replace Bottas in '21 or if Hamilton leaves the team/sport. Having the potential to evaluate Sainz/Norris/Russel/Ocon/Bottas will certainly come in handy if what they actually want is bargaining chips for Verstappen in '21.

How’s the news of Norris “buying Mercedes a seat”? Or them evaluating Sainz?


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I could've worded that better, sorry. I meant it's potentially Merc 'buying' a seat at McLaren for a junior driver as no point putting one in a Williams and Racing Point is full for some years to come. Merc might need somewhere good to house a driver and it maybe that Norris falls under Toto's (Merc) management.

I didn't say they were evaluating Sainz, I said it gives them the possibility to do so. It was pure speculation on my part, but if they have the opportunity to evaluate him, surely they would.

My point is that Mercedes doesn’t have a seat for anyone at McLaren... Who drives for McLaren isn’t a decision that will be influenced by Mercedes.

What Mercedes have achieved is having 2 good young drivers in their pool in the event either Hamilton or Bottas or both of them stop driving for Mercedes... With Russell and Norris they have a good pairing for years to come.


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[McG]

Diffuser you're one of the small group of people on here that usually make some sense amongst the shitstorm, but you're wrong here. You're taking the liberty to play devil's advocate too far on this particular topic.

To put it very simply...

It goes like this...
McLaren are here.


Then down there...



Down a bit farther...













Yes down here...
Williams and RP

[Andres125sx]

Except mercedes is not the best engine

Zach Brown said they think the Mercedes engine is the best. Hamilton are getting ready to take on him 6 titles in a row.

https://us.motorsport.com/f1/news/mclar ... 1/4551829/

Anyone saying the manufacturer they´ve just closed an agreement with is the best manufacturer is not a surprise, and usually not true either

I think it was since Canada, most people in the paddock agree Ferrari has an edge now, specially in qualifying

[the EDGE]

So the rumours start... Norris to be managed by Mercedes

https://www.planetf1.com/news/lando-nor ... es-report/

I’m not sure I even understand that article. Is it just speculation click-bait or is there some truth behind it?

[FittingMechanics]

So the rumours start... Norris to be managed by Mercedes

https://www.planetf1.com/news/lando-nor ... es-report/

I’m not sure I even understand that article. Is it just speculation click-bait or is there some truth behind it?

Looks like speculation. Italian link is broken, and the story on PlanetF1 makes an unexplained jump from Norris's dad investing to Norris being managed by Toto. Even if it is true, it isn't ground breaking.

[SmallSoldier]

Except mercedes is not the best engine

Zach Brown said they think the Mercedes engine is the best. Hamilton are getting ready to take on him 6 titles in a row.

https://us.motorsport.com/f1/news/mclar ... 1/4551829/

Anyone saying the manufacturer they´ve just closed an agreement with is the best manufacturer is not a surprise, and usually not true either

I think it was since Canada, most people in the paddock agree Ferrari has an edge now, specially in qualifying

I guess that it depends on how you rate “The Best Engine” in the grid... Depending on the criteria (and the weight to each factor that could be given) the title of Best Engine will probably swing between Mercedes and Mclaren.

In my opinion, to be considered the best engine in the grid, the following should be the criteria:

- Power in Qualifying (Highest Mode)
- Power during races (How much power is available in race mode)
- High Power Duration (For how long can the engine be use in the race at high power mode)
- Fuel Consumption (Allows for longer high power usage, as well as benefits in race pace for lower weight at the beginning of the race).
- Reliability
- Packaging

I don’t have enough information to determine the pecking order for each of those criteria’s, but it could be argued that Ferrari has the highest Power in Qualifying, while Mercedes seems to have a pretty similar amount of power during the race, as well as capable of running that power for longer... There have also been several statements or insights coming from the paddock that place Mercedes ahead in terms of Fuel Consumption... I would probably give Mercedes a higher score in Reliability versus Ferrari, even though they have had a couple failures with their Spec 3, they have had way lower amount of failures during the year/season... In regards to Packaging, I don’t know which is better.

So, based on which criteria you want to use and how important each is for you, it could be argued that Mercedes, even though not the most power engine in Qualifying, is still the best engine in the grid.


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[SmallSoldier]

So the rumours start... Norris to be managed by Mercedes

https://www.planetf1.com/news/lando-nor ... es-report/

I’m not sure I even understand that article. Is it just speculation click-bait or is there some truth behind it?

I have my doubts on the veracity of the information... So far, no official statements have been made by anyone and the story hasn’t been picked up by credible journalists.

I would be really surprised if Mclaren missed an opportunity to lock in a talent like Norris... But, if true, happy for Lando also.


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[diffuser]

Diffuser you're one of the small group of people on here that usually make some sense amongst the shitstorm, but you're wrong here. You're taking the liberty to play devil's advocate too far on this particular topic.

To put it very simply...

It goes like this...
McLaren are here.


Then down there...



Down a bit farther...













Yes down here...
Williams and RP

Thanks for the complement.

Right but does that matter if you're gonna pour money into it?

Maybe you have a 100 or so employees you want to bring over... McLaren have alot of pride. Molding them might not be easy. Depends on what they're looking for.

[geogate]

the thing with companies like Mclaren and Mercedes is they have more going on than just F1. I can see other areas where Mercedes would quite like a relationship with Mclaren again, namely Electric vehicle technology.
As for Mclaren, they wernt really given much choice given the terms Renault were trying to impose. I dont think there are many people here that would have been too chuffed with that either