2022 Aero Thread

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Wass85
Wass85
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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mzso wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 11:00 pm
Wass85 wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:56 am
My question is why are we changing the rules again. In 2014 cars could follow quite easily and we had some of the best racing ever that year yet we still complained.
Did you never see a good year in F1?
Wass85 wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:08 pm

That's my point, we started complaining they were too slow even though they offered great racing.
Or you don't know what great means. Because F1 pretty much gone to sh*t in the Ferrari dominant years. There might have been a few more good years if the Ferrari wasn't that better than the rest. By the time that era broke we didn't see good on track action anymore.
2014 was a great year for F1.

mzso
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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InsideF1 wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 7:44 am
For example, the rear of the car has something of sledgehammer approach to dealing with tyre squirt which from my team days was an incredibly complicated area and one which even if well understood was at the mercy of correlation and methodology. Obviously the more money you have the better you can tackle these issues and therefore the smaller teams struggle.
Didn't covering up the wheels (by moving them inboard for example) never come up? It would fix these sort of problems for good.
Or is the fixation on "open wheel" that strong?

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djos
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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Sevach wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 4:21 pm
foxmulder_ms wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 3:20 pm
djos wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 7:33 am


Go watch some late 90's and early 2k's Champ Car races and you might think differently afterward - they had the same overall aero philosphy and the racing was excellent!
??? Seriously.. Mika and Schumy years? dude the racing was all about strategy back then. We watched different races :D

I love current cars. The racing is really close nowadays I don't get the complains at all. Many here will be disappointed with 2021 :]
He was talking about Indy/Champcar not F1.
Exactly, aka CART, before it imploded.
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

Sevach
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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djos wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 3:42 am
Sevach wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 4:21 pm
foxmulder_ms wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 3:20 pm


??? Seriously.. Mika and Schumy years? dude the racing was all about strategy back then. We watched different races :D

I love current cars. The racing is really close nowadays I don't get the complains at all. Many here will be disappointed with 2021 :]
He was talking about Indy/Champcar not F1.
Exactly, aka CART, before it imploded.
And you were right late 90's CART was incredible, even on tracks that didn't favor overtaking.

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djos
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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Sevach wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 4:21 am
And you were right late 90's CART was incredible, even on tracks that didn't favor overtaking.
You are not wrong, I can vividly recall fierce multi-car battles on street circuits like Long Beach, Surfers Paradise etc being the norm between drivers like JPM, Vasser, Zanardi, DeFerran, Pruett, Unser Jr, Tracy etc.

Anyhoo, I can't wait for the 2012 season, IMO the new Aero & Finacial regs are exactly what we need to make F1 racing the best it can be and sustainable for the future. I'd have liked to go back to V10's, but 2 outa 3 ain't bad. =D>
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

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maunde
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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jjn9128 wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 12:59 pm
Blackout wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 10:59 am
Great insight insidef1 and turbo and Jjn etc.
They should have gone even further and standardised 80% of the "floor" and diffuser, atleast for 2021 in order to set everyone on an equal footing, at least at the start of the new regs...
What about the car length/wheelbase and weight? will they try to reduce them?
The floor is pretty standard.. there's a minimum and maximum shape for the tunnels (previous rules only even specified a maximum height for the diffuser) which doesn't leave a lot of room to play with. The diffuser endfence is also quite tight and there's not a lot of room to play with it. Then there's the minimum convex and concave radii. The vane surfaces are a little more open but still not huge freedom.
https://qd1nqw.by.files.1drv.com/y4m617 ... pmode=none

Thank you good sir for modelling the reference surfaces/volumes! Are you an F1 fan, or an engineer within a team? I was considering modelling those surfaces as well.

Extra question: where in the tech regs are the front wheel blades defined? Couldn't find them after a quick read
A kiwi looking to fly like McLaren.

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AMG.Tzan
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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Formula 1 never had much overtaking nor did it ever have more than 3 teams fighting for glory across a season!

Cars in 2014 were so slow that it was only expected that drivers will be able to race each other closely! As cars get faster and faster even if they don't get affected by the aero of the car in front...it will always get more difficult for drivers to race closely let alone find a way through!

Faster cars reward not only better drivers but also drivers that are willing to take bigger risks (see Ricciardo under braking). So just having slower cars for the sake of closer racing isn't always the better idea! After all Formula 1 is the pinnacle of motorsport and that's why some of us want faster cars!

2021 rules seem to try and solve both of the "problems" above! Both fast cars and closer racing! Let's see where F1 ends up with 2021...they look promising, both technical and sporting rules!! :)
"The only rule is there are no rules" - Aristotle Onassis

mzso
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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foxmulder_ms wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 3:20 pm
??? Seriously.. Mika and Schumy years? dude the racing was all about strategy back then. We watched different races :D

I love current cars. The racing is really close nowadays I don't get the complains at all. Many here will be disappointed with 2021 :]
The Häkkinen Schumacher years were awesome, with plenty of on track action...

I don't know what brutal stuff you are sniffing if you think racing today is close, when they're following each other with 3-4 second gaps at least.

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AMG.Tzan
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Location: Greece

Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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mzso wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 1:21 pm
foxmulder_ms wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 3:20 pm
??? Seriously.. Mika and Schumy years? dude the racing was all about strategy back then. We watched different races :D

I love current cars. The racing is really close nowadays I don't get the complains at all. Many here will be disappointed with 2021 :]
The Häkkinen Schumacher years were awesome, with plenty of on track action...

I don't know what brutal stuff you are sniffing if you think racing today is close, when they're following each other with 3-4 second gaps at least.
On track action? Hungary 98 for example had on track action?? Watching Schumacher do 50 quali laps and pass the Mclarens through the pits! I mean from a strategy point of view yes it was epic...but no on track action!

And i've watched many races from that era recently...Nurburgring 1997 comes to my mind now...Schumacher right under the gearbox of the Williams in front at the last corner lap after lap, never able to pass into Turn 1...what on earth?? Then people ask why do we need DRS! Just boring...

The greatest race of the Schumacher era (2000-2004) has to be the 2003 British GP...plenty of overtakes in that race!

I don't know why people keep on saying that this year races are boring! Racing this year has been stunning with great overtakes...ok Paul Ricard was an all time low but Silverstone, Austria, Germany, Hungary are some examples of great racing this year!
"The only rule is there are no rules" - Aristotle Onassis

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hollus
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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On topic, folks, focus, please.
Thank you.
¡Puxa Esportin!

mzso
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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I keep seeing seeing articles about Ferrari (maybe, or abstaining from) vetoing new regulations.
How on earth is that supposed to work when they get the veto from the "concorde" agreements but these expire and the 2021 regulations are put forward in a new agreement?

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JordanMugen
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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InsideF1 wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:01 pm
Hi all,

I'm new to forums like this as my previous 15 years of employment prevented me talking much about what I did. However, for the past two years I've been part of the aerodynamic team working within F1 on the 2021 rule set.
Thank you so, so, so much for your input InsideF1... Your thoughts have been fascinating reading! =D> =D> =D> =D>

PS. I think the final 2021 concept looks great, I hope the regulations do everything you have set out for them to do. :D

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JordanMugen
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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jjn9128 wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:33 pm
2021 rule boxes :o ... I'm going for a nap now.


Sorry if I am missing the obvious...

With these curved "virtual surfaces", is the wheelbase free or fixed? :?:
Last edited by JordanMugen on Sat Nov 02, 2019 3:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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JordanMugen
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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MtthsMlw wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:39 pm
The DRS actuator is included in the list of spec parts according to AMuS, I wonder how that would work with this RW design without real endplates.
It will just open up into the air. The ends of the rear wing are already not directly attached to the rear wing endplates anyway. There is a louvred spacer in-between -- it seems the spacer will remain in 2021.

Image

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jjn9128
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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JordanMugen wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 3:34 pm
Sorry if I am missing the obvious...

With these surfaces, is the wheelbase free or fixed? :?:
The wheelbase is limited to a maximum of 3600mm various definitions are relative to the front axle line/rear axle line. So the size of those boxes might change slightly if the wheelbase were shorter. I set the length as 3600mm which I assumed most teams would anyway.
#aerogandalf
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