2019 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 15-17 November

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turbof1
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Re: 2019 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 15-17 November

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ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 6:47 pm
turbof1 wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 6:44 pm
ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 4:51 pm

You are incorrect, vsc has been used in the past to recover stricken cars via crane truck that were not on track, but were inside the barriers. VSC was instituted after the Bianchi accident which had this exact scenario, disabled car, off track, inside barriers, crane out.

There is absolutely no way a driver can crash into a crane under vsc.
Saviour Stivala is right. I am not getting into the argument if it was really necessary or with inconsistent decisions, with Masi did explain in an interview this is standard procedure.
If Masi said that he is either misled, incorrect or lying. The vsc was instituted for this exact situation to replace the "waved double yellow flags", in order to take it out if the driver's hands to slow down sufficiently and put it in race control's hands.

There are many examples of both trucks and people "inside the barriers" with a vsc rather than sc.
Masi is the sporting director of the FIA. Again, I'm not going to argue about inconsistency, but I am going to take his word this is the standard procedure. Crane involved -> safety car.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/fia- ... s/4599984/

I tend to agree the VSC was logic-wise the better solution. I am only saying this looks to be the procedure. Whether or not they applied to consistent, something Stivala neither argued about, is a different matter.
#AeroFrodo

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siskue2005
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Re: 2019 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 15-17 November

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214270 wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 7:22 pm
Forgive me if it’s been asked/answered already but I gather SAI actually used DRS after the final safety car? Why was his 3rd place allowed to stand?
Same reason as Leclerc at Monza

SmallSoldier
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Re: 2019 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 15-17 November

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214270 wrote:Forgive me if it’s been asked/answered already but I gather SAI actually used DRS after the final safety car? Why was his 3rd place allowed to stand?
Drivers have to slow down during double yellows, even though Sainz opened his DRS, he manually closed shortly after and telemetry showed that he slowed down... Therefore complying with the rules and no penalty given.


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dtro
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Re: 2019 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 15-17 November

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2019 is dead. Long live 2020!
#nahboodhabi

May we get many more podiums like the one in Brazil and Germany this year.

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Juzh
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Re: 2019 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 15-17 November

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bottas vs leclerc
https://streamable.com/gc15x

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Pyrone89
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Re: 2019 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 15-17 November

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bluechris wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:23 pm
turbof1 wrote:
dans79 wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:14 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKYB4fDz5Vc
I have to say that is the most minimal of contact. Strange how that cause a puncture, and a tyre completely getting the rim.
2 tyres running with 300klms touched with opposite rotations. Im happy that the suspension and all the side of the behind wheel didn't destroyed flying high.
Just imagine the forces on this, this hot gum rubber suddenly from 600klm to a halt..
Opposite rotations?
Best WDC-drivers in F1 history:
Schumacher, Senna, Fangio

Driving a dominant car in the most dominant team ever, helped by favorable rule changes, against subtop teammates does not make you the GOAT (but still superb). It just helps you inflate/skew your stats.

dans79
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Re: 2019 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 15-17 November

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Pyrone89 wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 10:05 pm
bluechris wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:23 pm
turbof1 wrote:
I have to say that is the most minimal of contact. Strange how that cause a puncture, and a tyre completely getting the rim.
2 tyres running with 300klms touched with opposite rotations. Im happy that the suspension and all the side of the behind wheel didn't destroyed flying high.
Just imagine the forces on this, this hot gum rubber suddenly from 600klm to a halt..
Opposite rotations?
When the front of a tire makes contact with the back of another, they are moving in opposite directions. Down versus up.
163 97 94 7

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El Scorchio
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Re: 2019 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 15-17 November

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turbof1 wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 7:31 pm
ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 6:47 pm
turbof1 wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 6:44 pm

Saviour Stivala is right. I am not getting into the argument if it was really necessary or with inconsistent decisions, with Masi did explain in an interview this is standard procedure.
If Masi said that he is either misled, incorrect or lying. The vsc was instituted for this exact situation to replace the "waved double yellow flags", in order to take it out if the driver's hands to slow down sufficiently and put it in race control's hands.

There are many examples of both trucks and people "inside the barriers" with a vsc rather than sc.
Masi is the sporting director of the FIA. Again, I'm not going to argue about inconsistency, but I am going to take his word this is the standard procedure. Crane involved -> safety car.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/fia- ... s/4599984/

I tend to agree the VSC was logic-wise the better solution. I am only saying this looks to be the procedure. Whether or not they applied to consistent, something Stivala neither argued about, is a different matter.
Agree. They did stick technically to the letter of the law as defined by the regs. The question is more whether the regs in their current form cover the situation with Bottas’ breakdown and recovery in the best way.

My feeling is no. It felt a bit arbitrary to me, and perhaps common sense would have dictated VSC for that precise situation. I do understand we can’t have another Bianchi, but then do we want a fairly innocuous breakdown where the driver parked responsibly completely changing the outcome of a race? It set off a chain of events that really shook things up.

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Sieper
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Re: 2019 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 15-17 November

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Maybe towing cables at each exit station. Connected to a simple winch. Then they can pull the car back behind the barrier. Stick a sled under it If you must.
Just a personal interest, a Family recreating a WW2 May 1940 Dutch warbird from scratch: https://www.facebook.com/FlyingFokkerD21/

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RZS10
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Re: 2019 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 15-17 November

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Everyone is discussing whether the use of the SC was necessary but once again the main issue was that the driver, in this case Bottas, parked the car in a bad place, he continued to go for a long time with an engine which was obviously fücked, he could have easily gone into the pits or any orange marked exit but instead he parked the car on bumpy stretch of grass with his floor stranded on one of those bumps meaning the car couldn't be moved by the marshalls.

Of course the FIA could try to address that with the drivers but instead they're considering changes to the restart procedure which would bunch up the field in order to create interesting situations...... #-o

It was an exciting and fascinating re-start which will be analysed very carefully, as the closeness of the pack in the seconds leading up to the green flags resulted in a thrilling spectacle as drivers jockeyed for position and where the slightest advantage proved decisive. Examining the possibility of procedurally recreating those conditions in future is an interesting concept and one that will undoubtedly be explored in the coming period.

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El Scorchio
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Re: 2019 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 15-17 November

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RZS10 wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 12:01 am
Everyone is discussing whether the use of the SC was necessary but once again the main issue was that the driver, in this case Bottas, parked the car in a bad place, he continued to go for a long time with an engine which was obviously fücked, he could have easily gone into the pits or any orange marked exit but instead he parked the car on bumpy stretch of grass with his floor stranded on one of those bumps meaning the car couldn't be moved by the marshalls.

Of course the FIA could try to address that with the drivers but instead they're considering changes to the restart procedure which would bunch up the field in order to create interesting situations...... #-o

It was an exciting and fascinating re-start which will be analysed very carefully, as the closeness of the pack in the seconds leading up to the green flags resulted in a thrilling spectacle as drivers jockeyed for position and where the slightest advantage proved decisive. Examining the possibility of procedurally recreating those conditions in future is an interesting concept and one that will undoubtedly be explored in the coming period.
To be fair to Bottas, he did park as close to one of the gaps in the fence as possible and it was close, and should have been very easily recovered- but he could/should have perhaps just gone into the pits instead.

What you've quoted is really worrying- all about promoting 'the show' and artificially creating chaotic situations like they failed to do with the stupid reverse grid idea. You could substitute 'thrilling spectacle' for 'random cluster****', as numerous cars crashed and took each other out all scrambling to make a few places in effectively a 2 lap sprint race.

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RZS10
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Re: 2019 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 15-17 November

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I'm rather surprised that Mercedes did not see how much oil their car was burning, that must've shown in the telemetry ...

And yea ... it would be just like Indycar where one SC leads into the next ... some of the races are just a bunch of ads interrupted by a string of SCs, but maybe they want to target that audience ... lol

Sevach
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Re: 2019 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 15-17 November

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Juzh wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:33 pm
bottas vs leclerc
https://streamable.com/gc15x
https://streamable.com/gc15x
Ferrari vs Merc in terms of power you can see Ferrari gains a lot uphill before the DRS zone.

Restomaniac
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Re: 2019 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 15-17 November

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Sevach wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 12:32 am
Juzh wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:33 pm
bottas vs leclerc
https://streamable.com/gc15x
https://streamable.com/gc15x
Ferrari vs Merc in terms of power you can see Ferrari gains a lot uphill before the DRS zone.
That would be a brand new Ferrari Vs a Mercedes that we now know was on its last legs. Correct?

Restomaniac
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Re: 2019 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 15-17 November

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On that issue according to motorsport.com Bottas’ engine will return to Brixworth and be stripped and checked before a decision is made. Am I wrong in that I thought that if an engine is taken apart then it’s not classed as the same unit? I mean aren’t ICEs pretty much classed as a sealed unit according to the regs and replacing anything or even stripping them down is a no-no?

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/bott ... i/4600133/