2019 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina Circuit, 29 - 1 November/December

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turbof1
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Re: 2019 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina Circuit, 29 - 1 November/December

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f1jcw wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:20 pm
I'm not good with weights, is 4.88kg a lot?
Well first of all it depends if they exceeded the 105kg, or that they just had more fuel in the tank than they rapported to the FIA (e.g. rapported 100kg, while 104.88kg was in the tank).

Given 105kg is the maximum, it is at the very least 4.64% more fuel. I'd say significant yes. It'll allow for more fuel to be burned and therefore less lift and coast.

For the record, I am correct to assume this is a breach of the technical regulations right? Or is it sporting regulations?
#AeroFrodo

f1jcw
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Re: 2019 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina Circuit, 29 - 1 November/December

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If it had been pre-clarification it would have being interesting the match up being fuel used, fuel supposed used by meter and if the extra that wasn't declared was the difference.

But as this is after the clarification it doesn't make sense for it to happen now.

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jumpingfish
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Re: 2019 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina Circuit, 29 - 1 November/December

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50k euro for Ferrari is too soft penalty for that 4.88kgs "inaccurate declaration" lol

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siskue2005
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Re: 2019 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina Circuit, 29 - 1 November/December

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turbof1 wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:25 pm
f1jcw wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:20 pm
I'm not good with weights, is 4.88kg a lot?
Well first of all it depends if they exceeded the 105kg, or that they just had more fuel in the tank than they rapported to the FIA (e.g. rapported 100kg, while 104.88kg was in the tank).

Given 105kg is the maximum, it is at the very least 4.64% more fuel. I'd say significant yes. It'll allow for more fuel to be burned and therefore less lift and coast.

For the record, I am correct to assume this is a breach of the technical regulations right? Or is it sporting regulations?
It is a technical regulation breach..... but why would they do that? coz it seems the weight or fuel and car are also calculated after the race! What benifits can that give?

Restomaniac
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Re: 2019 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina Circuit, 29 - 1 November/December

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I nearly brought up that I wondered if they were waiting till after the race to see what punishment to give out.

Lo and behold it’s a podium so it’s a fine.

I’m annoyed that I didn’t have the stones to post it. I’m also annoyed that once again the big teams get to take the whizz!

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RZS10
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Re: 2019 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina Circuit, 29 - 1 November/December

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turbof1 wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:25 pm
Given 105kg is the maximum
It was increased to 110kg for 2019 :wink:

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siskue2005
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Re: 2019 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina Circuit, 29 - 1 November/December

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RZS10 wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:24 pm
That means several things ... that they believed whatever excuse Ferrari came up with... that the total fuel used must've matched whatever the fuel flow meter said and that they just saw it as a handicap, really, since Leclerc kept p3 ... right?

I agree with Turbo ... not penalizing VERY clear breaches of technical regulations is plain wrong.

4.88kg is 4.4% of what they can theoretically carry, realistically it's probably around 5% (?)
I agree! it seems like even if FIA are really afraid of punishing Ferrari after the Canada debacle happened!

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turbof1
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Re: 2019 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina Circuit, 29 - 1 November/December

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I dug a little deeper. I made some wrong assumptions.

-First off, the amount of fuel allowed is a sporting regulation.
-Second, the amount of fuel allowed is 110kg.

It being a sporting regulation does explain why it is no automatic DSQ. The 1 litre fuel sample is a technical regulation. Still, regardless in which regulation set it sits in, I still feel this not a correct punishment.
#AeroFrodo

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turbof1
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Re: 2019 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina Circuit, 29 - 1 November/December

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RZS10 wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:32 pm
turbof1 wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:25 pm
Given 105kg is the maximum
It was increased to 110kg for 2019 :wink:
Yes you are right, although this is less relevant. However, the amount of fuel is a sporting regulation.

Which I feel is rediculous actually, given the 1litre sample is a technical regulation. And I still think you can DSQ someone on the base of a sporting regulation, which is only fair given other fuel related infringements always had that punishment in the past.
#AeroFrodo

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siskue2005
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Re: 2019 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina Circuit, 29 - 1 November/December

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Binotto claiming that this is not the first time this season that a discrepancy has been found and Ferrari are confident the amount of fuel they provided on the form is correct. Hmmm

smellybeard
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Re: 2019 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina Circuit, 29 - 1 November/December

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It was always going to be a fine for Leclerc's team.
It was a paperwork error with no direct performance implications.

50k means nothing to Ferrari, though; 500k or 5m would hit the spot.

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siskue2005
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Re: 2019 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina Circuit, 29 - 1 November/December

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smellybeard wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:40 pm
It was always going to be a fine for Leclerc's team.
It was a paperwork error with no direct performance implications.

50k means nothing to Ferrari, though; 500k or 5m would hit the spot.
If it was a clerical error then ferrari claimed this:
Ferrari are apparently arguing that a technical directive is a guideline and not a sporting rule and therefore not subject to sanction.
This means that they knew about the discrepancy and were defending it

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AMG.Tzan
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Re: 2019 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina Circuit, 29 - 1 November/December

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Did Lewis do a grand slam today?? Pole, Fastest Lap, Win and Led every lap??

These 10-15 laps where DRS was unavailable were just awful!! Just a reminder to all those haters of DRS of how boring an F1 race can get without DRS!

I was praying for Sainz to snatch that 1 point and get 6th place in the WDC (not that it mattered much but...)....thankfully he did get it on the final lap and of course the TV director lost that battle and the Perez vs Norris battle just to show us how Hamilton was doing on his final lap and how Bottas was closing in to Leclerc even after they crossed the finish line! Congrats F1!! We do have on track battles but guess what...why show them??
"The only rule is there are no rules" - Aristotle Onassis

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Sieper
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Re: 2019 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina Circuit, 29 - 1 November/December

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This is ridiculous. 5kg that nobody knows about and that you are free to burn extra. This would have given them bragging right “see, no cheating” If undiscovered. Now they are discovered and still no penalty. A big shame and a very big shadow over the second half of this season.
Just a personal interest, a Family recreating a WW2 May 1940 Dutch warbird from scratch: https://www.facebook.com/FlyingFokkerD21/

jknights
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Re: 2019 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina Circuit, 29 - 1 November/December

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siskue2005 wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:37 pm
Binotto claiming that this is not the first time this season that a discrepancy has been found and Ferrari are confident the amount of fuel they provided on the form is correct. Hmmm
So if it is a disadvantage to carry more weight than need/allowed why have Ferrari claimed this is not the first time that they have had a discrepancy? Surely they would try to optimise the race weight of the car. Therefore either they have found a way to use the extra weight orit has a masking effect on something else. Or are we saying that the FIA are incompetent at weighing only Ferrari cars?

IMHO - hit them with a €5M fine for persistent under-declaration and see how often it happens in the future.