Ferrari SF1000

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter does not belong here.
LM10
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Re: Ferrari SF1000

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MtthsMlw wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 7:59 pm
Ringleheim wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 7:52 pm
munudeges wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:35 pm

You can't look at minute details with these cars and say this or that is happening, all you can do is look at the big stuff and the big differences. The glaring thing from looking at that Ferrari is the nose and front section. They just don't seem to have moved on as many other teams have done. Most teams have gone in at least a similar direction to Mercedes in narrowing the nose and reducing the frontal area. Red Bull seems to be a bit more nuanced than others. Ferrari.....don't appear to have done anything. One assumes, and hopes, they have got a planned update coming during these tests.
This is the first thing I thought of as I looked at the Ferrari photos from testing.

I totally ignored the front wing at the unveiling in Reggio Emilia as I assumed that was all for show and had nothing to do with the real wing.

But they should be running the real wing in Barcelona--and--it is still the same basic concept as last year! You know, the one that was shown to be not the way to go.

And I also see LeClerc's best time is 1.3 sec off Hammy's best time.

Great.
You mean the one every other team is kind of converging to?
Was about to write that as well. All teams use that concept by now, but it's basic and false. :)

TheFluffy
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Re: Ferrari SF1000

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Ringleheim wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 7:52 pm
munudeges wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:35 pm
You can't look at minute details with these cars and say this or that is happening, all you can do is look at the big stuff and the big differences. The glaring thing from looking at that Ferrari is the nose and front section. They just don't seem to have moved on as many other teams have done. Most teams have gone in at least a similar direction to Mercedes in narrowing the nose and reducing the frontal area. Red Bull seems to be a bit more nuanced than others. Ferrari.....don't appear to have done anything. One assumes, and hopes, they have got a planned update coming during these tests.
This is the first thing I thought of as I looked at the Ferrari photos from testing.

I totally ignored the front wing at the unveiling in Reggio Emilia as I assumed that was all for show and had nothing to do with the real wing.

But they should be running the real wing in Barcelona--and--it is still the same basic concept as last year! You know, the one that was shown to be not the way to go.

And I also see LeClerc's best time is 1.3 sec off Hammy's best time.

Great.
Woah Woah calm down here. The outwash effect is proven to be the right concept... even Merc and Red Bull have some sort of variant of that concept so that is fine. The only team that has not gone down Ferrari's route is Renault so...

Secondly, we have no idea what test rundown they are going through. They may just had took today as a day to check all the systems are running fine and trying out a few setups running on low engine mode. They were slow in all three sectors (it was not like they were quick on high/medium speed and slow on slow speed ones) so I assume they are just taking it easy at this point with the engine mode. We cannot at this point show there is a fundamental issue with their car.

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Morteza
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Re: Ferrari SF1000

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CSavoy
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Re: Ferrari SF1000

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Ringleheim wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 7:52 pm
munudeges wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:35 pm
You can't look at minute details with these cars and say this or that is happening, all you can do is look at the big stuff and the big differences. The glaring thing from looking at that Ferrari is the nose and front section. They just don't seem to have moved on as many other teams have done. Most teams have gone in at least a similar direction to Mercedes in narrowing the nose and reducing the frontal area. Red Bull seems to be a bit more nuanced than others. Ferrari.....don't appear to have done anything. One assumes, and hopes, they have got a planned update coming during these tests.
This is the first thing I thought of as I looked at the Ferrari photos from testing.

I totally ignored the front wing at the unveiling in Reggio Emilia as I assumed that was all for show and had nothing to do with the real wing.

But they should be running the real wing in Barcelona--and--it is still the same basic concept as last year! You know, the one that was shown to be not the way to go.

And I also see LeClerc's best time is 1.3 sec off Hammy's best time.

Great.
So, Ferrari is wrong because...it didn't copy Mercedes? #-o
And who said that the Ferrari FW concept was not the way to go? Both Mercedes and Red Bull changed theirs FW to be similar to Ferrari's idea, go see the photos and compare.

It's also insane to judge first day test times. Wait for the reports to get a better idea of the situation and wait for the Melbourne qualifying to get the clear picture.

Sevach
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Re: Ferrari SF1000

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For what it's worth today it looked like the rear was the problem rather than the front.

So this new FW, front suspension and the small changes to tuning vanes and nose might've done the trick even better than Ferrari expected.

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ME4ME
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Re: Ferrari SF1000

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Not sure if already mentioned, but Ferrari now has a single-piece engine & sidepod cover like Red Bull used to have. No stone is left unturned.

Ringleheim
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Re: Ferrari SF1000

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CSavoy wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:16 pm
Ringleheim wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 7:52 pm
munudeges wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:35 pm

You can't look at minute details with these cars and say this or that is happening, all you can do is look at the big stuff and the big differences. The glaring thing from looking at that Ferrari is the nose and front section. They just don't seem to have moved on as many other teams have done. Most teams have gone in at least a similar direction to Mercedes in narrowing the nose and reducing the frontal area. Red Bull seems to be a bit more nuanced than others. Ferrari.....don't appear to have done anything. One assumes, and hopes, they have got a planned update coming during these tests.
This is the first thing I thought of as I looked at the Ferrari photos from testing.

I totally ignored the front wing at the unveiling in Reggio Emilia as I assumed that was all for show and had nothing to do with the real wing.

But they should be running the real wing in Barcelona--and--it is still the same basic concept as last year! You know, the one that was shown to be not the way to go.

And I also see LeClerc's best time is 1.3 sec off Hammy's best time.

Great.
So, Ferrari is wrong because...it didn't copy Mercedes? #-o
And who said that the Ferrari FW concept was not the way to go? Both Mercedes and Red Bull changed theirs FW to be similar to Ferrari's idea, go see the photos and compare.

It's also insane to judge first day test times. Wait for the reports to get a better idea of the situation and wait for the Melbourne qualifying to get the clear picture.
No, Ferrari is wrong b/c it's car was fundamentally ill-designed last year and discussion focused on the front wing design not getting enough air to the back of the car for downforce.

And this year was their year to fix that, and yet they have the same front wing.

By the way, have you noticed Mercedes has kicked Ferrari's ass for the last 5 years or so?

BTW: if it wasn't obvious, I'm a huge Ferrari fan and sick of Mercedes winning.

I just want the car to be better. Ferrari hasn't built the best car in the field in a very long time.

Ringleheim
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Re: Ferrari SF1000

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Sevach wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:20 pm
For what it's worth today it looked like the rear was the problem rather than the front.

So this new FW, front suspension and the small changes to tuning vanes and nose might've done the trick even better than Ferrari expected.
It's not just about the FW. It's about the entire car and how all of its parts work in connection with each other. Problems at the rear may be exclusively due to problems at the front, because the front of the car is not getting enough air to the diffuser, for example.

I am not saying that is the problem; I didn't watch testing from today. I thought most people felt the front wing of last year's Ferrari was a problem in terms of getting down force to the back of the car, or getting the right tire temperatures, or both.

I thought Ferrari was waiting all last year to finally get to the offseason to be able to build a new car that yes---mimicked what Mercedes was doing because the Mercedes was faster in corners and that's where the Ferrari suffered. And they weren't going to fix that last year during the season b/c the problem was designed into the car.

That's where I'm coming from. And by the way, we are all F1 fans here. Does everyone everywhere on the internet have to have a snarky, douchey, argumentative take to things?

How about treating one another civilly?

[-o<

CSavoy
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Re: Ferrari SF1000

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Ringleheim wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 10:21 pm
CSavoy wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:16 pm
Ringleheim wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 7:52 pm


This is the first thing I thought of as I looked at the Ferrari photos from testing.

I totally ignored the front wing at the unveiling in Reggio Emilia as I assumed that was all for show and had nothing to do with the real wing.

But they should be running the real wing in Barcelona--and--it is still the same basic concept as last year! You know, the one that was shown to be not the way to go.

And I also see LeClerc's best time is 1.3 sec off Hammy's best time.

Great.
So, Ferrari is wrong because...it didn't copy Mercedes? #-o
And who said that the Ferrari FW concept was not the way to go? Both Mercedes and Red Bull changed theirs FW to be similar to Ferrari's idea, go see the photos and compare.

It's also insane to judge first day test times. Wait for the reports to get a better idea of the situation and wait for the Melbourne qualifying to get the clear picture.
No, Ferrari is wrong b/c it's car was fundamentally ill-designed last year and discussion focused on the front wing design not getting enough air to the back of the car for downforce.

And this year was their year to fix that, and yet they have the same front wing.

By the way, have you noticed Mercedes has kicked Ferrari's ass for the last 5 years or so?

BTW: if it wasn't obvious, I'm a huge Ferrari fan and sick of Mercedes winning.

I just want the car to be better. Ferrari hasn't built the best car in the field in a very long time.
Look, I don't know where you got those FW infos, but they aren't precise. What people were discussing was if Ferrari's concept was detrimental for them because it sacrificed some front end downforce to generate more outwash. Red Bull's and Mercedes concept does the opposite sacrifice, and some guys thought this was a better trade-off. But, when your see everyone converging towards Ferrari's FW style, it's reasonable to conclude that those guys were wrong. A stronger outwash effect better cleans the tires turbulent air, allowing the bargeboards and the diffuser to work better.

I understand that you're a huge Ferrari fan (we both are), and obviously want to see they win. The SF1000 needs to sort some problem's from last year's car (front axle downforce, peak downforce, tire heating and degradation, instability, etc), but we will only know if it does that by Melbourne. Right now we really can't conclude anything (only that the SF1000 looks beautiful :D ).

zibby43
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Re: Ferrari SF1000

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Deflector connecting floor slots and vertical vane ahead of the rear tire (via Albert Fabrega):

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outsid3r
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Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:55 pm

Re: Ferrari SF1000

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CSavoy wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 11:28 pm
Ringleheim wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 10:21 pm
CSavoy wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:16 pm


So, Ferrari is wrong because...it didn't copy Mercedes? #-o
And who said that the Ferrari FW concept was not the way to go? Both Mercedes and Red Bull changed theirs FW to be similar to Ferrari's idea, go see the photos and compare.

It's also insane to judge first day test times. Wait for the reports to get a better idea of the situation and wait for the Melbourne qualifying to get the clear picture.
No, Ferrari is wrong b/c it's car was fundamentally ill-designed last year and discussion focused on the front wing design not getting enough air to the back of the car for downforce.

And this year was their year to fix that, and yet they have the same front wing.

By the way, have you noticed Mercedes has kicked Ferrari's ass for the last 5 years or so?

BTW: if it wasn't obvious, I'm a huge Ferrari fan and sick of Mercedes winning.

I just want the car to be better. Ferrari hasn't built the best car in the field in a very long time.
Look, I don't know where you got those FW infos, but they aren't precise. What people were discussing was if Ferrari's concept was detrimental for them because it sacrificed some front end downforce to generate more outwash. Red Bull's and Mercedes concept does the opposite sacrifice, and some guys thought this was a better trade-off. But, when your see everyone converging towards Ferrari's FW style, it's reasonable to conclude that those guys were wrong. A stronger outwash effect better cleans the tires turbulent air, allowing the bargeboards and the diffuser to work better.

I understand that you're a huge Ferrari fan (we both are), and obviously want to see they win. The SF1000 needs to sort some problem's from last year's car (front axle downforce, peak downforce, tire heating and degradation, instability, etc), but we will only know if it does that by Melbourne. Right now we really can't conclude anything (only that the SF1000 looks beautiful :D ).
And this also brings to why ferrari have not gone down the slim nose route as mentioned over and over again in this forum... The wide nose is probably helping in a) creating more downforce to compensate for the pinched FW, and b) enhance the outwash effect. Its a completely diffident philosophy, you can't just say Ferrari is doing everything wrong because their parts don't look like the others'

smhasan7
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Re: Ferrari SF1000

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JPBD1990
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Re: Ferrari SF1000

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My uninformed observation watching the live coverage is that the Ferrari looks great on track. Smooth and planted. But that stands to reason if they’re at 7 tenths, so is totally meaningless. Here’s hoping though

Sevach
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MtthsMlw
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