2022 Aero Thread

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Owen.C93
Owen.C93
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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Peter Prodromou did a talk to Glasgow university and mentioned quite a few times that he doesn't feel the 2021 rules will improve the racing. I'm surprised there's such a disconnect between the work the FIA have been doing and the head of Aero at McLaren. No specific concerns I'm afraid.

Motorsport Graduate in search of team experience ;)

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izzy
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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Owen.C93 wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 2:30 pm
Peter Prodromou did a talk to Glasgow university and mentioned quite a few times that he doesn't feel the 2021 rules will improve the racing. I'm surprised there's such a disconnect between the work the FIA have been doing and the head of Aero at McLaren. No specific concerns I'm afraid.
that is weird isn't it, considering that was the whole point

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jjn9128
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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50m45s in for anyone not wanting to watch the whole thing.

Nothing he said really surprised me. Seems to be similar to what's coming out of other teams. I think it's part of the politics/mind games tbh, the teams are trying to bend the rules more to their whim rather than cow to the FOM/FIA model. We've already seen the minimum wheelbase grow 200mm in this endless back and forth, plus a number of spec parts have been dropped.
#aerogandalf
"There is one big friend. It is downforce. And once you have this it’s a big mate and it’s helping a lot." Robert Kubica

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Holm86
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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jjn9128 wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 3:03 pm
50m45s in for anyone not wanting to watch the whole thing.

Nothing he said really surprised me. Seems to be similar to what's coming out of other teams. I think it's part of the politics/mind games tbh, the teams are trying to bend the rules more to their whim rather than cow to the FOM/FIA model. We've already seen the minimum wheelbase grow 200mm in this endless back and forth, plus a number of spec parts have been dropped.
Do you mean maximum wheelbase? And what was the argument of increasing it?

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jjn9128
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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Holm86 wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 4:12 pm
Do you mean maximum wheelbase? And what was the argument of increasing it?
#-o yes I did. I don't know it's ever explicitly been said why, but the initial wheelbase was 3.4m and now it's 3.6m (unless in the next update it gets any longer). I think arguement was to allow more "space" for packaging.
#aerogandalf
"There is one big friend. It is downforce. And once you have this it’s a big mate and it’s helping a lot." Robert Kubica

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Holm86
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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jjn9128 wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 4:45 pm
Holm86 wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 4:12 pm
Do you mean maximum wheelbase? And what was the argument of increasing it?
#-o yes I did. I don't know it's ever explicitly been said why, but the initial wheelbase was 3.4m and now it's 3.6m (unless in the next update it gets any longer). I think arguement was to allow more "space" for packaging.
I guess you're right that it would be their argument, but surely the long wheelbases is purely for aero reasons. More floor area, and a longer wheelbase give you more time to manage the front wheel wake before it hits the rear.
The packaging is already ridiculously tight, the sidepods are almost non existing.

I really had hopes of the FIA capping the wheelbase at around 3200mm, these cars dont look like cars anymore.

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jjn9128
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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Holm86 wrote:
Sun Mar 08, 2020 1:26 am
I guess you're right that it would be their argument, but surely the long wheelbases is purely for aero reasons. More floor area, and a longer wheelbase give you more time to manage the front wheel wake before it hits the rear.
The packaging is already ridiculously tight, the sidepods are almost non existing.

I really had hopes of the FIA capping the wheelbase at around 3200mm, these cars dont look like cars anymore.
Yep, it's politics, they come up with a rationale which sounds reasonable while obscuring the real reason.

I agree, 3200mm would have been more than enough.
#aerogandalf
"There is one big friend. It is downforce. And once you have this it’s a big mate and it’s helping a lot." Robert Kubica

mzso
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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Sevach wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 12:03 pm
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/14857 ... ted-by-fia

Rules have been modified already.
Tethers will be mandated for rear wing and rear impact structures
I wonder what happened to the foil coating on carbon fiber composite elements to prevent them getting littered all around when broken.

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jjn9128
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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mzso wrote:
Sun Mar 08, 2020 12:40 pm
I wonder what happened to the foil coating on carbon fiber composite elements to prevent them getting littered all around when broken.
Still in the rules - only covers the front wing endplates though.
3.10 Bodywork construction
3.10.1 In order to avoid the spread of debris on the track following an accident, the outer skins of the front wing endplates and any turning vanes in the vicinity of the front wheels (and any similarly vulnerable bodywork parts in this area), must be made predominantly from materials which are included for the specific purpose of containing debris.
The FIA must be satisfied that all such parts are constructed in order to achieve the stated objective.
2021 covers a bit more.
3.16 Aerodynamic Component construction
The components outlined below must be constructed to prescribed laminates. Details of these laminates can be found in the Appendix to the Sporting and Technical Regulations.
3.16.1 Front Wing Endplate
The bodywork declared as Front Wing Endplate in Article 3.9.5 must be made to the laminate PL-ANTI-SPLINTER.
Fasteners and related inserts, for the purpose of attaching the front wing endplate to the profiles must be positioned at least 30mm rearward of the leading edge of the endplate.
3.16.2 Suspension Fairings
Suspension Fairings as defined in Article 3.14 must be made to the laminate PL-SUS-FAIRING.
#aerogandalf
"There is one big friend. It is downforce. And once you have this it’s a big mate and it’s helping a lot." Robert Kubica

mzso
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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@jjn9128
Thanks for the update.

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Noah Prandtl
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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Is downforce reduced for 2021 compare to now?
Who thinks Adrian will make the best aero-job again?

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Steven
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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Noah Prandtl wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 12:35 pm
Is downforce reduced for 2021 compare to now?
Who thinks Adrian will make the best aero-job again?
"Again" is somewhat arguable, seeing today's RBR performance, but combined with the solid budget that RBR have, and they experience, they're somewhat unlikely to f*ck it up.

Also note that this thread is supposed to be about the technical implications of the changes in 2021, not so much about speculation on what will be the pecking order.

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Noah Prandtl
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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Steven wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 4:01 pm
Noah Prandtl wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 12:35 pm
Is downforce reduced for 2021 compare to now?
Who thinks Adrian will make the best aero-job again?
"Again" is somewhat arguable, seeing today's RBR performance, but combined with the solid budget that RBR have, and they experience, they're somewhat unlikely to f*ck it up.

Also note that this thread is supposed to be about the technical implications of the changes in 2021, not so much about speculation on what will be the pecking order.
Ok I am new member so I must adapt to forum rules..
But I also ask for amout of downforce-2021 compare to now..

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jjn9128
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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Noah Prandtl wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 4:07 pm
Ok I am new member so I must adapt to forum rules..
But I also ask for amout of downforce-2021 compare to now..
Nobody outside the teams really knows either. But I've estimated in the past current levels of downforce are between CzS~5.5 to 6 - so 26-29kN of downforce at 200mph. I don't anticipate 2022 (now the rule change is delayed from 2021) rules to be much lower than this on downforce. Our 2022 car achieved just about CzS =5 and I'd hope teams would be able do better than us with all their staff and resources.

Where the aero differs from current spec is the size of the tyres which are going to be 8% larger with the switch to 18" rims (725mm from 670mm) which is a big increase from the already horrible bluff bodies the exposed wheels are. Drag will be increased, racecar engineering found the same thing though less of an increase than we saw in our study.

Regarding Newey from the man himself
#aerogandalf
"There is one big friend. It is downforce. And once you have this it’s a big mate and it’s helping a lot." Robert Kubica

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Noah Prandtl
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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jjn9128 wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 4:40 pm
Noah Prandtl wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 4:07 pm
Ok I am new member so I must adapt to forum rules..
But I also ask for amout of downforce-2021 compare to now..
Our 2022 car achieved just about CzS =5 and I'd hope teams would be able do better than us with all their staff and resources.


Ansys CFX nice!
Last edited by Noah Prandtl on Sun Jul 26, 2020 7:19 pm, edited 3 times in total.