Block in developments to save costs

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Pyrone89
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Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:44 pm

Re: Block in developments to save costs

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Blackout wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 10:38 am
Pyrone89 wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:11 am
Would this prevent others from getting DAS and variable Ackermann, as these are housed in and on the monocoque
Probably. Same chassis, same rules, same mechanical parts => same steering IMO
According to Tost, "The chassis will be homologated. The mechanical parts too, such as the suspensions. The only thing that can be improved is the aerodynamics. That's the front wing, rear wing, body, sidepods, floor, diffuser and deflectors."
Is the cooling still part of the aerodynamics and can be changed in 2021?
That would make Mercedes the 2020 and 2021 champions. Seeing how no-one will be able to get DAS and Ackerman in time, or catch up with the suspension magic they have. I cannot understand why Ferrari, RBR and AT would agree with this. If it is about costs they might as well stop competing, saves even more money than accepting you are certain to not be the champion.
Best WDC-drivers in F1 history:
Schumacher, Senna, Fangio

Driving a dominant car in the most dominant team ever, helped by favorable rule changes, against subtop teammates does not make you the GOAT (but still superb). It just helps you inflate/skew your stats.

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izzy
69
Joined: Sun May 26, 2019 9:28 pm

Re: Block in developments to save costs

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Pyrone89 wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 7:53 pm
That would make Mercedes the 2020 and 2021 champions. Seeing how no-one will be able to get DAS and Ackerman in time, or catch up with the suspension magic they have. I cannot understand why Ferrari, RBR and AT would agree with this. If it is about costs they might as well stop competing, saves even more money than accepting you are certain to not be the champion.
DAS is pretty marginal and they all have as much ackerman as they want, if Mercedes really are using DAS for the steering angles then it's just the last tiny bit of refining

it'll be much more important how much traction they've got and kerb riding and aero balance during braking and tyre use and stuff like that. Meanwhile Honda will be better again and Ferrari busy catching back up with their power, so the cars will be more even than ever and it'll be the strategy and setup and driving that'll decide the championships, stay cool! :)

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Big Tea
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Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:57 pm

Re: Block in developments to save costs

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Pyrone89 wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 7:53 pm
Blackout wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 10:38 am
Pyrone89 wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:11 am
Would this prevent others from getting DAS and variable Ackermann, as these are housed in and on the monocoque
Probably. Same chassis, same rules, same mechanical parts => same steering IMO
According to Tost, "The chassis will be homologated. The mechanical parts too, such as the suspensions. The only thing that can be improved is the aerodynamics. That's the front wing, rear wing, body, sidepods, floor, diffuser and deflectors."
Is the cooling still part of the aerodynamics and can be changed in 2021?
That would make Mercedes the 2020 and 2021 champions. Seeing how no-one will be able to get DAS and Ackerman in time, or catch up with the suspension magic they have. I cannot understand why Ferrari, RBR and AT would agree with this. If it is about costs they might as well stop competing, saves even more money than accepting you are certain to not be the champion.
As none of the teams presented a car to stewards yet, we don't know what they have.
We are standing on the shoulders of Giants. So watch your feet.

saviour stivala
saviour stivala
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Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:54 am

Re: Block in developments to save costs

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Big Tea wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 9:09 pm
Pyrone89 wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 7:53 pm
Blackout wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 10:38 am


Probably. Same chassis, same rules, same mechanical parts => same steering IMO
According to Tost, "The chassis will be homologated. The mechanical parts too, such as the suspensions. The only thing that can be improved is the aerodynamics. That's the front wing, rear wing, body, sidepods, floor, diffuser and deflectors."
Is the cooling still part of the aerodynamics and can be changed in 2021?
That would make Mercedes the 2020 and 2021 champions. Seeing how no-one will be able to get DAS and Ackerman in time, or catch up with the suspension magic they have. I cannot understand why Ferrari, RBR and AT would agree with this. If it is about costs they might as well stop competing, saves even more money than accepting you are certain to not be the champion.
As none of the teams presented a car to stewards yet, we don't know what they have.
And neither what they will have (changed/modified) when and if racing starts and they presents their cars.

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RZS10
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Re: Block in developments to save costs

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https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/merc ... 1/4775355/

DAS banned for 2021 ... depending on whether there will be any racing in 2020 it might end up never being used

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Jambier
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Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:02 am
Location: France

Re: Block in developments to save costs

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New rules may now be postponed to 2023

Also, work on 2022 (or 2023) cars is now prohibited , I don't know what that means

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henry
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Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 7:49 pm
Location: England

Re: Block in developments to save costs

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RZS10 wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 2:15 pm
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/merc ... 1/4775355/

DAS banned for 2021 ... depending on whether there will be any racing in 2020 it might end up never being used
That’s a shame. DAS, and it’s underlying steering control of individual wheels, was an interesting topic of conversation. One we could all get our heads round. It would have been interesting to continue to speculate on its implementation and see its use in races. The new regulation that controls it seems bullet proof.

Maybe Mercedes, or Ferrari, will be encouraged to reveal what they were up to.
Fortune favours the prepared; she has no favourites and takes no sides.
Truth is confirmed by inspection and delay; falsehood by haste and uncertainty : Tacitus

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Pyrone89
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Re: Block in developments to save costs

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Now the discussion is shifting to Mercedes’ gearbox in which they apparently only need 4 bolts vs the 6 of others, making them have an advantage. Ferrari and Red Bull are appearing to be against component freezes to prevent locking in the Mercedes advantage (and rightly so if you ask me).
Best WDC-drivers in F1 history:
Schumacher, Senna, Fangio

Driving a dominant car in the most dominant team ever, helped by favorable rule changes, against subtop teammates does not make you the GOAT (but still superb). It just helps you inflate/skew your stats.

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
656
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: Block in developments to save costs

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No doubt that once Ferrari and RedBull think they've got all of Mercedes's tricks on their own car, they'll be all for freezes at that point... :wink:
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

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izzy
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Joined: Sun May 26, 2019 9:28 pm

Re: Block in developments to save costs

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henry wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 4:13 pm
RZS10 wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 2:15 pm
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/merc ... 1/4775355/

DAS banned for 2021 ... depending on whether there will be any racing in 2020 it might end up never being used
That’s a shame. DAS, and it’s underlying steering control of individual wheels, was an interesting topic of conversation. One we could all get our heads round. It would have been interesting to continue to speculate on its implementation and see its use in races. The new regulation that controls it seems bullet proof.

Maybe Mercedes, or Ferrari, will be encouraged to reveal what they were up to.
Yes i'm really hoping to see it in action in some races, it's something visual and just interesting

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Pyrone89
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Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:44 pm

Re: Block in developments to save costs

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Tokens are coming up again as a real possibility. Have they learned nothing from the past that all a token system does is greatly benefit the leading team/car? They are already ahead so in normal cases would need to spend less tokens than the teams that first have to change a lot of parts to catch up.

It is like they don't want F1 to get less predictable.

Best WDC-drivers in F1 history:
Schumacher, Senna, Fangio

Driving a dominant car in the most dominant team ever, helped by favorable rule changes, against subtop teammates does not make you the GOAT (but still superb). It just helps you inflate/skew your stats.

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Big Tea
137
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:57 pm

Re: Block in developments to save costs

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Pyrone89 wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 10:20 pm
Tokens are coming up again as a real possibility. Have they learned nothing from the past that all a token system does is greatly benefit the leading team/car? They are already ahead so in normal cases would need to spend less tokens than the teams that first have to change a lot of parts to catch up.

It is like they don't want F1 to get less predictable.

https://twitter.com/AlbertFabrega/statu ... 59552?s=20
I think if tokens are used again it has to have some sort of handycap weighting. For instance, all teams get 100 points worth at year start, but each podium place decreases the points by a small amount. Teams not scoring keep the 100 until they are passing the lead teams, then they start dropping and another team benefits.

This however would be very difficult to get right, especially as teams om both ends of the grid have the same engine.
Not ideal, but as we saw, a straight limit just keeps the status quo at best, or stretches the spread
We are standing on the shoulders of Giants. So watch your feet.

sprint car76
sprint car76
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Location: British columbia, Canada

Re: Block in developments to save costs

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The new mantra - keep screwing with it until you ruin it. See nascar.

ENGINE TUNER
ENGINE TUNER
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Re: Block in developments to save costs

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Pyrone89 wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 10:20 pm
Tokens are coming up again as a real possibility. Have they learned nothing from the past that all a token system does is greatly benefit the leading team/car? They are already ahead so in normal cases would need to spend less tokens than the teams that first have to change a lot of parts to catch up.

It is like they don't want F1 to get less predictable.

https://twitter.com/AlbertFabrega/statu ... 59552?s=20
Again, you are wrong, the previous token system held Merc back more than any of the other PU manufactures. The tokens stop alot of small improvements and force larger improvements, so in fact favor those who are further behind. Look at the huge jump in engine performance Ferrari had from 14 to 15. Also the tokens gave so much scope for improvement/change that Honda was able to fully switch their PU concept from 16 to 17. The tokens in reality held nobody back(not 1 manufacturer used all their tokens), but held Mercs improvement back more than the others.
Furthermore, UNLIMITED reliability changes were allowed, and yet Renault and Honda were still failing left, right and center. Do not confuse Renault and Honda's incompetence for failure on the part of the token system.

What makes F1 predictable is lining up the grid in order based on qually, tokens would have no change on that.

ispano6
ispano6
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Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:56 pm
Location: my playseat

Re: Block in developments to save costs

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ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 8:40 pm
Pyrone89 wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 10:20 pm
Tokens are coming up again as a real possibility. Have they learned nothing from the past that all a token system does is greatly benefit the leading team/car? They are already ahead so in normal cases would need to spend less tokens than the teams that first have to change a lot of parts to catch up.

It is like they don't want F1 to get less predictable.

https://twitter.com/AlbertFabrega/statu ... 59552?s=20
Again, you are wrong, the previous token system held Merc back more than any of the other PU manufactures. The tokens stop alot of small improvements and force larger improvements, so in fact favor those who are further behind. Look at the huge jump in engine performance Ferrari had from 14 to 15. Also the tokens gave so much scope for improvement/change that Honda was able to fully switch their PU concept from 16 to 17. The tokens in reality held nobody back(not 1 manufacturer used all their tokens), but held Mercs improvement back more than the others.
Furthermore, UNLIMITED reliability changes were allowed, and yet Renault and Honda were still failing left, right and center. Do not confuse Renault and Honda's incompetence for failure on the part of the token system.

What makes F1 predictable is lining up the grid in order based on qually, tokens would have no change on that.
Just salary cap the drivers at a few million and the rest of the money can go back to development.