Ferrari SF1000

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter does not belong here.
Jolle
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Re: Ferrari SF1000

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saviour stivala wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 8:55 pm
Franco Nugnes got his nickers in a twist with that totally confusing article as suspension loads are not carried by the gearbox casing.
Not saying the article is right or wrong... but last time I saw a gear box casing, it was, among other things, used to attach all the rear suspension parts to the rear of the car...

bill shoe
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Re: Ferrari SF1000

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saviour stivala wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 8:55 pm
Franco Nugnes got his nickers in a twist with that totally confusing article as suspension loads are not carried by the gearbox casing.
Rear suspension loads go through the gearbox casing. The article was slightly long and vague, but it makes perfect sense to claim there could be a handling problem due to insufficient gearbox stiffness in response to suspension loads.

Where did you think the rear suspension connected to the rest of the car?

Sevach
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Re: Ferrari SF1000

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Suspension arms do attach to the gearbox, pretty much industry standard, nobody even discusses it.
We have to take those with a grain of salt... but maybe they pushed too much to make it light and miscalculated slightly, it could be.

saviour stivala
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Re: Ferrari SF1000

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F1 cars use a carbon fibre case to hold the rear together with the gearbox sitting inside-it in one piece.
With the ‘actual’ gearbox mounted inside-it. The outer casing means you can have all your rear suspension mounting points, bits and pieces in a separate structure that does not influence the design of the gearbox casing. It gives the chassis dynamics engineers freedom over the design of the rear suspension without having to compromise the design of the gearbox.
Putting the gearbox in another ‘box’ gives more options for suspension mounting and allows changes without changing the gearbox.

PhillipM
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Re: Ferrari SF1000

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It's still going through the gearbox casing, it's just some teams use a multipiece design with a structural outer that can be changed/upgraded without having to make the entire thing with all the boring, alignment, etc, machining to be redone.

saviour stivala
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Re: Ferrari SF1000

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All 5 different makes of gearboxes presently used in F1 have the gearbox proper placed inside a carbon fibre outer box (box inside a box) the carbon fibre outer box is a separate structure designed to take suspension loads. No suspension loads are going through the gearbox proper.

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ScrewCaptain27
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Re: Ferrari SF1000

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The article is not that well written IMO. What I think he means is that the gearbox casing itself is flexing, but that is not necessarily due to suspension loads. It would have more to do with lateral G-forces in corners.
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PhillipM
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Re: Ferrari SF1000

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saviour stivala wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 8:08 am
No suspension loads are going through the gearbox proper.
Impossible, given the two are fixed together.

dans79
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Re: Ferrari SF1000

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PhillipM wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 12:47 pm
saviour stivala wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 8:08 am
No suspension loads are going through the gearbox proper.
Impossible, given the two are fixed together.
Not to mention foolish. The carbon shell would be excessively heavy if it was supposed to support all the load and not transmit any forces to the internal alloy casing.
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Pierce89
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Re: Ferrari SF1000

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saviour stivala wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 8:08 am
All 5 different makes of gearboxes presently used in F1 have the gearbox proper placed inside a carbon fibre outer box (box inside a box) the carbon fibre outer box is a separate structure designed to take suspension loads. No suspension loads are going through the gearbox proper.
The carbon skin does not take all the load away from the metal case. The carbon skin is simply so they can change suspension geometry without recasting the box.
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dans79
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Re: Ferrari SF1000

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Pierce89 wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 1:49 pm
saviour stivala wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 8:08 am
All 5 different makes of gearboxes presently used in F1 have the gearbox proper placed inside a carbon fibre outer box (box inside a box) the carbon fibre outer box is a separate structure designed to take suspension loads. No suspension loads are going through the gearbox proper.
The carbon skin does not take all the load away from the metal case. The carbon skin is simply so they can change suspension geometry without recasting the box.
That's not not completely correct. The main reason the carbon skin exists is so they can change suspension geometry whenever they want without taking a gearbox penalty.

Doing away with the carbon skin, and just making a new gearbox, would probably be easier, cheaper and lighter, but hey I didn't make these ridiculous rules!
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saviour stivala
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Re: Ferrari SF1000

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There is no rear road-wheels or suspension forces acting on the gearbox casing (gear housing) proper.
The gearbox gear cluster system (twin shaft system) is assembled onto the rear gearbox housing flange. And inserted into the gear housing (proper) from the rear. This gear housing (proper) assemble is than inserted into the outer carbon fibre load bearing housing. It is suspended inside this outer housing by being bolted through the rear gear cluster flange. The input shaft from engine to gearbox gear cluster is a floating separate stub-shaft on which rides the clutch. In this design the only loadings on the gear-cluster housing (proper) is that imparted by the gears meshing together trying to push each of the two shafts apart under load.

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jumpingfish
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Re: Ferrari SF1000

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Once again, I see on the site a mention that the new 065 v2 engine will be 15 hp more powerful, which should bring to the level that was before the FIA checks.

https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/formu ... a/4794774/

saviour stivala
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Re: Ferrari SF1000

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The present formula one eight speed seamless gearbox have been developed into what can be called a ‘miniature’ eight speed seamless gearbox that can handle around the 1000hp mark. The gearbox is suspended inside the carbon fibre load bearing outer box by being bolted through the ‘flat’ rear gear cluster flange and lays quite some distance away to the rear from the back side of the engine. It is not bolted to the engine. What is bolted to the engine is the carbon fibre load bearing outer box. The miniaturising of the gearbox was only stopped by the rules imposing gears centre distances, gear thickness, and gear weight minimums. The biggest step in miniaturising was actually first achieved by Honda in the 2.4l V8 days, this was done by eliminating the dog-clutch/s between gears and putting the engagement mechanisms inside both the gears themselves and into the gear shafts. This system also eliminated the use of gear selection forks and the barrel that operates the forks.

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outsid3r
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Re: Ferrari SF1000

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Video on whats going on with the gearbox - basically a repetition of what was already said here. Apparently Ferrari already has a plan on how to solve this issue and that is by adding more layers of carbonfibre to case and with a different weave

Edit: they also said that the movement was so tiny was only picked up by the sensors and that the drivers didn't notice. But they plan to rectify it also because of reliability issues because it puts the gear stalks under higher pressures