New theory emerges on the Most Controversial F1 season and Schumacher's maiden World Championship

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Jolle
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Re: New theory emerges on the Most Controversial F1 season and Schumacher's maiden World Championship

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Ringleheim wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 3:57 am
Jolle wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:14 pm
1994 was a f*7ked up season and almost ended F1. Not just the two deaths in one race but also left the sport without a star or world champion.

Briatores team cheated, a lot. But the FIA/FOM were left with a problem. They couldn't taint this season even more by excluding Benneton or Schumacher. In 1994 there was no one else that could replace the stars it lost in the years before. Remember, in the late eighties/early nineties you had Mansell, Prost, Senna, Piquet.... Would be like Hamilton, Vettel, Raikkonen and Alonso all retired at the same time and we were left with Verstappen vs Bottas.

The evidence is quite clear: The FIA investigation that found hidden software in the ECU, the pitlane fire, Senna's view, Verstappen's story and that Briatore (and Schumacher in lesser extent) had a big hand in foul play in later seasons.

It's a real shame, Schumachers talent shouldn't have needed this.
I'm not alone in considering F1 these days more or less "ruined". Imola 1994 is what did it.

A long and steady stream of changes starting then has led to where we are now.
Please elaborate on that statement? How is for instance the 2019 season different then 1989? Or 1984?

Just_a_fan
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Re: New theory emerges on the Most Controversial F1 season and Schumacher's maiden World Championship

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Jolle wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 8:05 am
Ringleheim wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 3:57 am

I'm not alone in considering F1 these days more or less "ruined". Imola 1994 is what did it.

A long and steady stream of changes starting then has led to where we are now.
Please elaborate on that statement? How is for instance the 2019 season different then 1989? Or 1984?
I'm going to guess that it's too safe, too controlled, not enough noise, no grid girls, blah, blah.

The usual stuff from those who would live in a past that only ever existing in their minds. :wink:
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Jolle
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Re: New theory emerges on the Most Controversial F1 season and Schumacher's maiden World Championship

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 10:40 am
Jolle wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 8:05 am
Ringleheim wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 3:57 am

I'm not alone in considering F1 these days more or less "ruined". Imola 1994 is what did it.

A long and steady stream of changes starting then has led to where we are now.
Please elaborate on that statement? How is for instance the 2019 season different then 1989? Or 1984?
I'm going to guess that it's too safe, too controlled, not enough noise, no grid girls, blah, blah.

The usual stuff from those who would live in a past that only ever existing in their minds. :wink:
“Forgetting” the almost decade long dominance of McLaren and large rule changes for safety... 😂😂

I think F1 changed more in the 15 years before 1994 then the 25 years after.

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Andres125sx
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Re: New theory emerges on the Most Controversial F1 season and Schumacher's maiden World Championship

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GPR-A wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 7:19 am
nzjrs wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 9:42 pm
GPR-A wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 9:24 pm
Mandela effect. A non existent truth makes up a world of their liking for some people.
Sorry, could you share the part about how the traction control (or general) software had to be recompiled and reuploaded in order to be usable. I hadn't seen that bit before.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/bene ... 55/?nrt=54
Two conditions had to be satisfied before the computer would apply "launch control": First, the software had to be enabled either by recompiling the code, which would take some minutes, or by connecting the lap-top PC as outlined above, which could be done in a matter of seconds.

Secondly, the driver had to work through a particular sequence of up-down gear shift paddle positions, a specific gear position had to be selected and the clutch and throttle pedals had also to be in certain positions. Only if all these actions were carried out would the "launch control" become available.
This is the FIA version of their truth. It's hilarious how the report is written. Software compilation in seconds, "A specific gear" (no specifics here from FIA), "Clutch and throttle pedals also be in certain position"! How does one manage that at a race start?
What makes you think those specific gear and certain position of pedals are any different to their normal position for a race start?

I´d say programming the activation of an illegal launch control using the normal gearbox, clutch and throttle positions for a race start is not only plausible, but even mandatory. If not the activation procedure will be any other procedure wich can´t be found in normal scrutineering, but obviously it can´t be a normal switch, button or paddle.

I don´t think you can find any more evidence of cheating in F1 sincerely. If that is considered illegal with the rules of that season that´s a different story tough, as the line between taking advantage of a loophole and cheating can be very vague. But if you take into consideration the spirit of the rules, what was the purpose of the rules and what was the purpose of the team with that functions... Hidden launch control while LC was banned... it´s one of the most evident examples of cheating ever, only their lawyers will stick to the fact they can´t prove it was used to dodge the law with presumption of inocence, wich is a good point too and the reason I say the line between cheating and loopholes can be very vague

But we all know no F1 team will develop such a function and hide it from scrutineering to not use it

Alexf1
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Re: New theory emerges on the Most Controversial F1 season and Schumacher's maiden World Championship

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I've been looking again at the starts of the first half of 1994 season and I don't think Schumacher used launch control in Brazil. His start from the dirty side of the track was poor, he even lost a place. The quick pitstop turned his race around. But then in Aida his start from the dirty side was just very very good. Gained a place. In Imola his start from the dirty side again was also better than Ayrton, he even got alongside. In Monaco it was just very good. In Barcelona his reaction off the line was phenomenal. France on the clean side it was just brrrrilliant. But then from British GP onwards it was a big step back again. Strange thing I noticed at British GP was that his reaction to the lights was very good but the wheelspin, oh man! German GP start was also bad and he lost a place. If they decided to use launch control it must have been after Brazil and they used it from Aida to France. This is just my observation.

sosic2121
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Re: New theory emerges on the Most Controversial F1 season and Schumacher's maiden World Championship

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Schumacher was dsq from 4 races out of 16 but there is a thread about launch control he maybe used, maybe not. Launch control that was probably just left there after the aid ban.
Why was his ecu inspected in the first place? What they were looking for? Traction control?

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Andres125sx
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Re: New theory emerges on the Most Controversial F1 season and Schumacher's maiden World Championship

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Alexf1 wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 2:51 pm
If they decided to use launch control it must have been after Brazil and they used it from Aida to France.
You think they developed an illegal LC before deciding if they will use it or not? I don´t think any F1 team will install something in the car that will bring a big punishment if found by FIA if they´re not going to use. It would be absurd


About the start analysis, doing a poor start in the dirty side can´t discard LC by itself. LC can´t improve car grip, if grip is low because of the dirt LC can´t do magic and provide more grip than available. LC only eliminate driver mistakes doing constantly the best possible starts with current grip, but if your rival, even without LC, manage to do a very good start, LC will not provide any advantage, so if he´s on the clean side his car has more available grip and his start will be better

Alexf1
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Re: New theory emerges on the Most Controversial F1 season and Schumacher's maiden World Championship

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No thats not what I think. I think they started the season with a software version without LC. But after Brazil they added the LC they had from 1993.

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NathanOlder
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Re: New theory emerges on the Most Controversial F1 season and Schumacher's maiden World Championship

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If it was from previous seasons, why leave it on there in the first place? It would appear the other teams all removed it, so its not like it cost a lot of money to do so. Besides Benettons budget would have been top 4.
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Re: New theory emerges on the Most Controversial F1 season and Schumacher's maiden World Championship

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They cheated and got away with it. Pretty simple. Like most cheaters they thought they would get away with it and they did.

ncx
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Re: New theory emerges on the Most Controversial F1 season and Schumacher's maiden World Championship

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NathanOlder wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 3:24 pm
If it was from previous seasons, why leave it on there in the first place? It would appear the other teams all removed it, so its not like it cost a lot of money to do so. Besides Benettons budget would have been top 4.
Typical Microsoft. You remove stuff and some time later it pops up again, somewhere, somehow.

gold333
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Re: New theory emerges on the Most Controversial F1 season and Schumacher's maiden World Championship

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GPR-A wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:28 am
Simple. You don't get caught in the act, you are not cheating. Like it has been going on forever. Like Mercedes has done, like Ferrari has done and like many other teams have done and probably doing! No scope for what people FEELS.

FIA has never managed to catch extremely intelligent hacks. They are good for catching obvious ones or side with the ones who holds the power.
I love this. This person (an obvious Schumacher fan) has argued and argued that Schumachers car in 1994 couldn't have been cheating. Then he finally relents and comes out with his true character. Quote: "Simple. You don't get caught in the act, you are not cheating. "

This is what I mean. The depths hero worship can cause people to sink to.
F1 car width now 2.0m (same as 1993-1997). Lets go crazy and bring the 2.2m cars back (<1992).

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Big Tea
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Re: New theory emerges on the Most Controversial F1 season and Schumacher's maiden World Championship

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gold333 wrote:
Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:40 pm
GPR-A wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:28 am
Simple. You don't get caught in the act, you are not cheating. Like it has been going on forever. Like Mercedes has done, like Ferrari has done and like many other teams have done and probably doing! No scope for what people FEELS.

FIA has never managed to catch extremely intelligent hacks. They are good for catching obvious ones or side with the ones who holds the power.
I love this. This person (an obvious Schumacher fan) has argued and argued that Schumachers car in 1994 couldn't have been cheating. Then he finally relents and comes out with his true character. Quote: "Simple. You don't get caught in the act, you are not cheating. "

This is what I mean. The depths hero worship can cause people to sink to.
I bet you don't know what the worlds most successful undetected crime is, do you?
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NL_Fer
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Re: New theory emerges on the Most Controversial F1 season and Schumacher's maiden World Championship

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Didn’t they conclude that during that periode all teams were exploiting loopholes to have some form of throttle assistance. Another one was to use intake pressure to estimate the speed and use it to limit engine torque or throttle response?

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strad
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Re: New theory emerges on the Most Controversial F1 season and Schumacher's maiden World Championship

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I think no amount of proof would change some peoples minds. They don't want the truth they want their hero exonerated.
Benneton got caught cheating in multiple ways and multiple times, BUT on this they are clean. YEAH RIGHT.
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