Mercedes changes 2020 livery in fight against racism

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3jawchuck
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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Gothrek wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:55 am
....
BLM for me is something purely political and has nothing to do with the actual problems anymore. Also for me not really a topic to discuss here on an F1 forum.
Yes, they no longer represent what they claim to represent. The majority of supporters of that movement are just using it as an excuse for thuggery and criminality. They are not going to solve the problems that exist in their society, that's for sure.

In the UK (and other places in Europe), their version of these people is just an excuse for chavs to throw stuff at police. Of all the nonsense, protesting a problem that doesn't exist in their country.

Phil wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:33 am
....
This. If you resist an arrest and seek confrontation, I really don't see what people would expect. Has absolutely zero to do with skin color, but all to do with common sense. I don't see where this belief comes from that one has the right to resist over someone with authoritative power (e.g. the police) and is armed. That's just asking for trouble.
Yeah, resisting arrest is dumb. But so is choking a man to death when he posed no threat to you or others around him. I don't know nor give a --- if it was because he was black, police brutality has gone on too long and those who perpetrate it need prosecuting.

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Re: Mercedes changes 2020 livery in fight against racism

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Phil wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:33 am
mertol wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:01 am
Police are under no obligation to save criminals' lives where do you get that crap? If you are dumb enough to fight the police then don't get upset when you get killed. There isn't even any race involved here.

I was against american gun laws but looking at the riots I get it. I stand corrected.
This. If you resist an arrest and seek confrontation, I really don't see what people would expect. Has absolutely zero to do with skin color, but all to do with common sense. I don't see where this belief comes from that one has the right to resist over someone with authoritative power (e.g. the police) and is armed. That's just asking for trouble.
It's never that simple, though.

You probably have seen the video of an old (white) man trying to hand over a riot helmet to an officer. Although the officer yelled to the old man to back off, the old man just wanted to give the mask and was completely harmless, eventually he got shoved down, hitting his head hard to the pavement to the point a puddle of blood appeared in seconds. The officers just walked by like as if nothing happened (ultimately somebody of the national guard look to the person).

Likewise, I am sure there violent deeds done against police officers justifying a violent response either for selfprotection or to protect others.

Resisting arrest and seeking confrontation is a very situational thing therefore to act on. If that involves substantial risk (and not just imaginary risk!), then deadly force is rational. If resisting arrest means trying to pull free from a hold or trying to run away, then shooting with a gun should not be the answer.

Police officers are put in a special position where they get authority and in some cases the license to kill. Society is right to expect they use that power in a rational and logical way. Even if citizens are not conforming with what you demand as an officer, you still have to ask the question if violence is appropiate, and if so to what order.

I do agree it shouldn't be just black lifes that matter, but all lifes. Now is there a statistical significant difference in how white vs black people are treated? Yeah, there is. But, just limiting your view on racism on one race, is kind of racist too.
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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3jawchuck wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:46 am
Gothrek wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:55 am
....
BLM for me is something purely political and has nothing to do with the actual problems anymore. Also for me not really a topic to discuss here on an F1 forum.
Yes, they no longer represent what they claim to represent. The majority of supporters of that movement are just using it as an excuse for thuggery and criminality. They are not going to solve the problems that exist in their society, that's for sure.
There are people who abuse the idea, but I would stay rational and wouldn't generalize all BLM protesters as rioters, thugs,etc. The vast majority is peaceful and hate that riots happened that put a smudge on the movement.
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maxxer
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Re: Mercedes changes 2020 livery in fight against racism

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So where is the thread about the livery there is no place for racism
Last edited by maxxer on Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:23 am, edited 2 times in total.

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turbof1
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Re: Mercedes changes 2020 livery in fight against racism

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maxxer wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:16 am
So where is the thread about the livery there is no place for racism especially in an f1technical forum =D>
[s]That's the team thread, provided you keep that about the livery only :mrgreen: .[/s]

EDIT: ah it seems we got too much heat and had to split it off... . So here. Definitely here.
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Re: Mercedes changes 2020 livery in fight against racism

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turbof1 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:20 am
maxxer wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:16 am
So where is the thread about the livery there is no place for racism especially in an f1technical forum =D>
That's the team thread, provided you keep that about the livery only :mrgreen: .
Yeap see already lost it lol
So what if the black livery is to hide how they made the packaging even tigther yeah factory close but designers working from home

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Re: Mercedes changes 2020 livery in fight against racism

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maxxer wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:22 am
turbof1 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:20 am
maxxer wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:16 am
So where is the thread about the livery there is no place for racism especially in an f1technical forum =D>
That's the team thread, provided you keep that about the livery only :mrgreen: .
Yeap see already lost it lol
So what if the black livery is to hide how they made the packaging even tigther yeah factory close but designers working from home
It's basically a marketing ploy. Maybe there are some weight advantages as well, but I think primarily to show "hey we care about our customers and they don't get confronted with racism, as long as you can buy our cars of course!"
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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RZS10 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:01 pm
That's why Merc will start some 'targeted education initiatives to encourage and support talented people from under-represented backgrounds who aspire to reach F1' ... it's about getting more of said group into F1 tech/engineering/whatever because as of now there's apparently not that many of em ... it's not like ~13% of the population (ethnic+minorities) make up ~50% of highly qualified engineers and they did not pick them because they're racist ... they will always pick the most qualified for the position.
I think the end result in itself is looking at it wrong. The issue at present is that people of minorities don't have the same chances. I do believe that in the more experienced and specialized fields(ie. F1, where your competence matters) this segregation is much less. But due to the segregation that happens in schools, or at the start of their careers, they automatically are less likely to reach these higher, more experienced, roles.
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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Racer X wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:03 pm

You're comments/opinion is trying to undermine the validity of the opinions of those contrary to you're own. Good tactic but why does "This crap" bother you? Why does it bother you that they are protesting to end police brutality? IT shouldn't even be an issue at all Police should not be able to kill anyone period and not be held accountable for their actions. Police should only be able to detain you and then process you into the system where a judge and a jury will then deliberate on weather you are actually guilty of a crime. They are only asking to stop the Police's ability to systematically kill colored people in the United States and everyone around the world is showing their support.

Undermining it with COVID and other excuses is just childish.

Why would you want to defend Police brutality?

Why do you want to uphold the Polices current legal immunity when killing unarmed people of Color.

Why does it bother you that they are asking for the simple right to a trial?

Encounters with Police should not end in loss of life over minor infractions.


Unless a suspect is actively attacking innocent lives/or Police officers they should not have the right to kill the suspects. However in the United States they seem to have the right to kill colored people all they are asking for is for that to stop.

I still dont get why that offends you?

Does ending police brutality go against your agenda?
I dont try to undermine anything. This floyd guy was a criminal, attempted murder on a pregnant woman, using fake money frequently and abusing fentanyl. Now why cause a worldwide revolt for a criminal? Are you aware of what you're typing? lol

The police officer was wrong? Maybe. Is it worth all this fuzz over a thug? Definitely not. You all need to stop watching mainstream medias and do your own research, there's endless information for you to tie the dots and realize this black lives matter movement is a smoke screen, the real purpose is to make politics against the Republican party

It's funny how Bernie Ecclestone is in the right after all I hated on him, at least he still has a working brain (with 90 years old lol)

Wynters
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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V12-POWER wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:27 pm
I dont try to undermine anything. This floyd guy was a criminal, attempted murder on a pregnant woman, using fake money frequently and abusing fentanyl. Now why cause a worldwide revolt for a criminal? Are you aware of what you're typing? lol
Your stance appears to be that executing someone without judicial process is acceptable.
V12-POWER wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:27 pm
the real purpose is to make politics against the Republican party
The Republican party is pro-extra judicial execution? These actions weren't an issue under Obama in 2014 (Eric Garner)? BLM weren't founded three years before the Republican party took power?

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Re: Mercedes changes 2020 livery in fight against racism

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turbof1 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:02 am
Phil wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:33 am
mertol wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:01 am
Police are under no obligation to save criminals' lives where do you get that crap? If you are dumb enough to fight the police then don't get upset when you get killed. There isn't even any race involved here.

I was against american gun laws but looking at the riots I get it. I stand corrected.
This. If you resist an arrest and seek confrontation, I really don't see what people would expect. Has absolutely zero to do with skin color, but all to do with common sense. I don't see where this belief comes from that one has the right to resist over someone with authoritative power (e.g. the police) and is armed. That's just asking for trouble.
It's never that simple, though.

You probably have seen the video of an old (white) man trying to hand over a riot helmet to an officer. Although the officer yelled to the old man to back off, the old man just wanted to give the mask and was completely harmless, eventually he got shoved down, hitting his head hard to the pavement to the point a puddle of blood appeared in seconds. The officers just walked by like as if nothing happened (ultimately somebody of the national guard look to the person).

Likewise, I am sure there violent deeds done against police officers justifying a violent response either for selfprotection or to protect others.

Resisting arrest and seeking confrontation is a very situational thing therefore to act on. If that involves substantial risk (and not just imaginary risk!), then deadly force is rational. If resisting arrest means trying to pull free from a hold or trying to run away, then shooting with a gun should not be the answer.

Police officers are put in a special position where they get authority and in some cases the license to kill. Society is right to expect they use that power in a rational and logical way. Even if citizens are not conforming with what you demand as an officer, you still have to ask the question if violence is appropiate, and if so to what order.

I do agree it shouldn't be just black lifes that matter, but all lifes. Now is there a statistical significant difference in how white vs black people are treated? Yeah, there is. But, just limiting your view on racism on one race, is kind of racist too.
I have. And I have also seen other videos (body cams) of resisted arrests that turned violent. But beforehand, the narrative was very different in the media and the racism card was played instead.

Now I am not suggesting that *every* cop is doing the right thing and that violence and brutality is justified. I'm absolutely certain across a country of 330 million and a police force of 800'000 (according to Wikipedia), there are more than a few black sheep's that are abusing the power they've been given. Absolutely. Undoubtedly. But is it systematic?

I think another issue is that in the US, there seems to be less respect towards the police force to the point that people there believe they can stand up to them. At some point, that is going to cause friction. Not much different than having a kid that doesn't want to listen and you start taking more drastic measures to retain order. If I had the choice of being a cop in any country, the US would probably be last on my list. Being a cop in a country where guns are legal changes the playing field a bit and I wouldn't be surprised if that just makes everyone just a bit more on edge. Here in Switzerland, and I'd assume it's the same across Europe, there's a healthy level of respect towards the police. We may not necessarily like them (who does?), but resisting an arrest? No fricking way. That's just asking for trouble and I'm quite frankly amazed at the amount of people who do this (in any country) and possibly think they are smart... until they end up dead.

And at the moment, with all these revolts and protests - who wouldn't be on edge? Having the masses against you is nothing short of scary and a pressure cooker waiting to explode. If I am to take a guess, this is the "context" that is missing when judging videos like the one about the old guy trying to hand back that helmet.
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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Wynters wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:40 pm
V12-POWER wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:27 pm
I dont try to undermine anything. This floyd guy was a criminal, attempted murder on a pregnant woman, using fake money frequently and abusing fentanyl. Now why cause a worldwide revolt for a criminal? Are you aware of what you're typing? lol
Your stance appears to be that executing someone without judicial process is acceptable.
V12-POWER wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:27 pm
the real purpose is to make politics against the Republican party
The Republican party is pro-extra judicial execution? These actions weren't an issue under Obama in 2014 (Eric Garner)? BLM weren't founded three years before the Republican party took power?
My stance is clear in the post, call it however you want, doesn't change the fact that BLM movement is way out of proportion and hides the real purpose of it. I retract myself from saying it's a smoke screen, that would be the case if activists tried to be a little bit "stealthier" - They don't even bother hiding it anymore, anyone with past certain reach is taking part in this bs.

I already said, let's look at lewis rooting for Biden. Now why would he do that, he ain't even an US citizen. Really? Hiding behind a "Black Lives Matter" sign while you do politics? It's not only him, it's almost every artist and "public figure" that's doing it. He happens to be the only F1 driver openly doing this day after day. He might like to think he's the saviour of the sport but soon enough it will come back and bite him

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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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V12-POWER wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:08 pm
Wynters wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:40 pm
V12-POWER wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:27 pm
I dont try to undermine anything. This floyd guy was a criminal, attempted murder on a pregnant woman, using fake money frequently and abusing fentanyl. Now why cause a worldwide revolt for a criminal? Are you aware of what you're typing? lol
Your stance appears to be that executing someone without judicial process is acceptable.
V12-POWER wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:27 pm
the real purpose is to make politics against the Republican party
The Republican party is pro-extra judicial execution? These actions weren't an issue under Obama in 2014 (Eric Garner)? BLM weren't founded three years before the Republican party took power?
My stance is clear in the post, call it however you want, doesn't change the fact that BLM movement is way out of proportion and hides the real purpose of it. I retract myself from saying it's a smoke screen, that would be the case if activists tried to be a little bit "stealthier" - They don't even bother hiding it anymore, anyone past certain reach is taking part in this bs.

I already said, let's look at lewis rooting for Biden. Now why would he do that, he ain't even an US citizen. Really? Hiding behind a "Black Lives Matter" sign while you do politics? It's not only him, it's almost every artist and "public figure" that's doing it. He happens to be the only F1 driver openly doing this day after day. He might like to think he's the saviour of the sport but soon enough it will come back and bite him

V12-POWER
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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Wynters wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:40 pm
Your stance appears to be that executing someone without judicial process is acceptable.

The Republican party is pro-extra judicial execution? These actions weren't an issue under Obama in 2014 (Eric Garner)? BLM weren't founded three years before the Republican party took power?
My stance is clear in the post, call it however you want, doesn't change the fact that BLM movement is way out of proportion and hides the real purpose of it. I retract myself from saying it's a smoke screen, that would be the case if activists tried to be a little bit "stealthier" - They don't even bother hiding it anymore, anyone past certain reach is taking part in this bs.

I already said, let's look at lewis rooting for Biden. Now why would he do that, he ain't even an US citizen. Really? Hiding behind a "Black Lives Matter" sign while you do politics? It's not only him, it's almost every artist and "public figure" that's doing it. He happens to be the only F1 driver openly doing this day after day. He might like to think he's the saviour of the sport but soon enough it will come back and bite him

Wynters
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Re: Mercedes changes 2020 livery in fight against racism

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Phil wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:58 pm
Now I am not suggesting that *every* cop is doing the right thing and that violence and brutality is justified. I'm absolutely certain across a country of 330 million and a police force of 800'000 (according to Wikipedia), there are more than a few black sheep's that are abusing the power they've been given. Absolutely. Undoubtedly. But is it systematic?
Qualified immunity and the relative lack of consequences that officers involved in these events face suggest that, whilst it may not be actively encouraged, the institution does turn a blind, even protective, eye.
Phil wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:58 pm
I think another issue is that in the US, there seems to be less respect towards the police force to the point that people there believe they can stand up to them.
Unfortunately, not all the deaths that have been filmed (which are the vast minority of deaths involving police officers) have involved people standing up to the police or resisting arrest. There are multiple cases of people who were no threat to life or limb (e.g. restrained, restrained on the ground, unarmed, running away, kneeling with their hands up) who end up dead.

Is standing up to people in power a bad idea? I think your mileage may vary.

Is being killed for actions that, by law, do not warrant death acceptable? I would argue not.