Wynters wrote: ↑
Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:20 pm
Phil wrote: ↑
Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:04 pm
Isn't criminality also higher among blacks?
This is beginning to get into fairly complicated territory.*
Fortunately, we don't have to go there as the point you raise is irrelevant to the conversation I was having with Mertol. To summarise, Mertol once more attempted to obfuscate his bias, this time by taking the bold position that the deaths weren't disproportionate. I provided proof that they were, he didn't read it and refused to provide any evidence to back up his own claims.
There's only so much moving of the goal posts that I'm willing to see as good faith and out-of-hand dismissals of factual data is a leap too far.
*Whilst I appreciate this is likely a genuine question and, unlike Mertol, I think this is in good faith, this is a) very complex, b) likely beyond my skills to clearly and accurately dissect and present to a level that either (let alone both) of us would be satisfied with and c) requires more time than I have. So, with apologies, I'll have to leave this for someone else to delve into.
It was a genuine question, one that I believe to be relevant. For example; As a police officer, my threat assessment would be very dependent on who I engage and in which context. If I was for example engaging an individual who typically has a history of violance (just an example), I'd be on higher alert than for example when confronting an elder person. Hence, if there is indeed more criminality among certain people or regions, I would assume cops to be different too. Again, don't understand this the wrong way as if I am suggesting that certain people are more criminal than others. I'm working under the assumption that there is a difference in criminality (statistically speaking) and that this difference also has a impact on how officers might deal with under certain situations.
I don't know Mertol nor do I know his bias, but IMO he is asking sound questions and applying logical reasoning so far. As per his example; "I wouldn't get chocked because I wouldn't resist an arrest" to be spot on. The other examples of being shot when simply following orders by the police, well, they might exist, but again, systematic? I find that very very hard to believe. Provoking can have many different forms too, like being argumentative, implying threats etc. Again, I'm not going to defend every single case of innocent shooting in history, but I've seen and read many cases where supposedly an innocent was shot, only to later find that the relevant context wasn't reported and that the whole thing could have been avoided if no resistance had taken place.
And even if there are cops that do abuse their power and badge and go out and seek "trouble" - are they doing it while being racially motivated or are they simply getting their kicks from exercising power over others?
Then my last point; If afro-americans truly felt they were targeted systematically (a narrative that is very popular it seems), perhaps is also causing them to resist arrests more often? Or maybe it's also due to the dark history of the USA of slavery that some feel no-one, even a police officer, especially when white, should have power over them?
These are genuine thoughts and questions. With world wide protests and more weight given to the narrative of racial injustice, I can't help but think this is all leading to more problems and friction as cases that have zero racial motivation are portrayed as such in the media, leading to more hate and more violence.
In other words, if I felt people like me were systematically targeted and shot by the police, perhaps I too would behave differently in such a situation (feeling threatened and my life being at stake). Or maybe it would make me be extra careful, not to provoke and as helpful as I can?