Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
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Moore77
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Blackout wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 7:40 pm
0.7s equates 56 - 58hp, not 70, AFAIK.
Depends on circuits. Some of those estimates have outdated, especially with minimum weight of cars having increased year on year. In the past, with 2009-13 generation cars, which were far lighter had a corresponding performance relation of 10 hp equalling around 0.1 second. Current generation cars are over 100 kilos heavier than in 2013 and far more draggier due to increased downforce (largely due to aero elements and parachute rear wing). It definitely can't be the same.
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Jolle
Jolle
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Moore77 wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:14 pm
Blackout wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 7:40 pm
0.7s equates 56 - 58hp, not 70, AFAIK.
Depends on circuits. Some of those estimates have outdated, especially with minimum weight of cars having increased year on year. In the past, with 2009-13 generation cars, which were far lighter had a corresponding performance relation of 10 hp equalling around 0.1 second. Current generation cars are over 100 kilos heavier than in 2013 and far more draggier due to increased downforce (largely due to aero elements and parachute rear wing). It definitely can't be the same.
If indeed based on the V8’s, which had about 750 hp, with much less draggier cars back then (narrow track and narrow tires).
So, frontal impact of the 2013 vs 2017 car is about 15% more drag? 25% more power and 15% more weight... if 0.7 on a short track was around 60hp, with these cars it could well be a bit more. But, 100hp is already 10%

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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F1 cars are tuned for balance and grip. So downforce is sometimes shed if the grip is enough. Some drag is reduced as a result.

Mercedes has stated that their car has more downforce and less drag than last year. Greater aero efficiency basically. On top of that they have increased the power gap to the competition. So it is hard to make good correlations. The other tricky part is the MGUK adds to the power curve at points unlike an engine BHP bump would add. So the horespower peak is not so shaped as a normal ICE.
Not driving a Mercedes? Work harder!

ENGINE TUNER
ENGINE TUNER
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:04 pm
The fuels they use now are the same species as pump gas.. Except if the pump fuel is Susan Boyle the F1 designer fuel is Adrianna Lima.

Only the best molecules are hand picked basically. So combustion is way more efficient and quicker.
Slighty related to our discussion regarding "engineered" fuel


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pierrre
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:04 pm
The fuels they use now are the same species as pump gas.. Except if the pump fuel is Susan Boyle the F1 designer fuel is Adrianna Lima.

Only the best molecules are hand picked basically. So combustion is way more efficient and quicker.
Image

i still dont get what you are trying to say
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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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pierrre wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 5:38 pm
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:04 pm
The fuels they use now are the same species as pump gas.. Except if the pump fuel is Susan Boyle the F1 designer fuel is Adrianna Lima.

Only the best molecules are hand picked basically. So combustion is way more efficient and quicker.
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/lmD5R-Q29og/maxresdefault.jpg

i still dont get what you are trying to say
Lol that's past the expiry date.
Not driving a Mercedes? Work harder!

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SiLo
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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So this article is quite interesting regarding the FIA deal and the Ferrari engine:

https://www.funoanalisitecnica.com/2020 ... refresh_ce

The best summary I could find (from Reddit):

1) Red Bull and Mercedes suspected faul play by Ferrari regarding the engine, but their clarifications asked from the FIA initially amounted to nothing.

2) A FIA-person, who was embedded at Ferrari found out the trick Ferrari was pulling off (bypassing the fuel flow sensor) and forwarded that information to either Mercedes (or Red Bull) who then asked the FIA for clarification, leading to the TD that nerfed Ferrari, and the FIA-Ferrari settlement.

3) To put that into context; the FIA can't issue technical clarifications of their own volition. A team needs to prompt the FIA, upon which they can issue a TD. This FIA-person therefore handed over this info about the Ferrari engine to Mercedes.. allegedly, which eventually led to the TD.

4) Ferrari felt betrayed by this FIA-person (who in their eyes illegally shared Ferrari IP with others) and feel that Toto's wrath was in retaliation to Ferrari vetoeing him as Chase Carey's successor as the head of Formula 1.

5) It is believed (by those in or close to Ferrari) that other (read: most likely Mercedes) engines still operate in a grey area, while Ferrari is now fielding the only truly legal engine.

If this is the wrong thread let me know and I can move it.
Felipe Baby!

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MtthsMlw
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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I remember in 2018 when the engine saga began and the ERS system was suspected a second sensor was installed to better understand the flow from the ES to the other ERS components.
Arrivabene wasn't too happy that this was somehow discoverd by the media (first reported by AMuS).
“I think it’s strange that everybody knows about the second sensor, because as I said our battery is quite complex, but it’s also an intellectual property of Ferrari. I hope that because everybody knows about the second sensor, in future, everybody is not going to be informed about our project. That could be a serious matter.”

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SiLo
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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I wonder if all along it was a fuel flow sensor trick, and the battery thing was a red herring.
Felipe Baby!

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Blackout
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Is the Ferrari compressor inside the V? The more I look at Ferrari PU pics, the more I think so. The turbine seems to be placed extremely close to the engine, similar to Mercedes... So where is the compressor? it's probably inside the V... it's air supply certainly is...

Xwang
Xwang
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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SiLo wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 11:18 am
So this article is quite interesting regarding the FIA deal and the Ferrari engine:

https://www.funoanalisitecnica.com/2020 ... refresh_ce

The best summary I could find (from Reddit):

1) Red Bull and Mercedes suspected faul play by Ferrari regarding the engine, but their clarifications asked from the FIA initially amounted to nothing.

2) A FIA-person, who was embedded at Ferrari found out the trick Ferrari was pulling off (bypassing the fuel flow sensor) and forwarded that information to either Mercedes (or Red Bull) who then asked the FIA for clarification, leading to the TD that nerfed Ferrari, and the FIA-Ferrari settlement.

3) To put that into context; the FIA can't issue technical clarifications of their own volition. A team needs to prompt the FIA, upon which they can issue a TD. This FIA-person therefore handed over this info about the Ferrari engine to Mercedes.. allegedly, which eventually led to the TD.

4) Ferrari felt betrayed by this FIA-person (who in their eyes illegally shared Ferrari IP with others) and feel that Toto's wrath was in retaliation to Ferrari vetoeing him as Chase Carey's successor as the head of Formula 1.

5) It is believed (by those in or close to Ferrari) that other (read: most likely Mercedes) engines still operate in a grey area, while Ferrari is now fielding the only truly legal engine.

If this is the wrong thread let me know and I can move it.
The FIA person has told this story to the journalist, but it was someone inside Ferrari (a spy/ a mole) to inform the other teams and then the FIA which then has made the investigation and has issued the TDs .

This phrase “Qualcuno ha fatto avere alla FIA alcuni documenti che dimostravano come la Ferrari interpretasse il regolamento in modo troppo ‘audace’. Una talpa, in accordo con i concorrenti del Cavallino, ha permesso che la Federazione internazionale riaprisse l’inchiesta tecnica riguardo al motore. Si è trattato di una palese violazione del segreto industriale e questo fa comprendere il motivo del famigerato accordo. La Ferrari non ha ricevuto penalizzazioni, ma ha dovuto accettare di eliminare quella soluzione.”

means:

"Someone gave the FIA some documents that showed how Ferrari interpreted the regulation too" boldly ". A mole, in agreement with Cavallino's competitors, allowed the International Federation to reopen the technical investigation into the engine. It was a clear violation of industrial secrecy and this makes us understand the reason for the notorious agreement. Ferrari did not receive penalties, but had to agree to eliminate that solution. "
I'm still learning English so please excuse me if my English is not good enough and feel free to correct me via PM if you want.

elf341
elf341
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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SiLo wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 11:58 am
I wonder if all along it was a fuel flow sensor trick, and the battery thing was a red herring.
If true would confirm there really are no new tricks, just old ones reinvented!

Remember Riccardo as P2 in Australia 2014?

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subcritical71
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Xwang wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 3:20 pm
means:

"Someone gave the FIA some documents that showed how Ferrari interpreted the regulation too" boldly ". A mole, in agreement with Cavallino's competitors, allowed the International Federation to reopen the technical investigation into the engine. It was a clear violation of industrial secrecy and this makes us understand the reason for the notorious agreement. Ferrari did not receive penalties, but had to agree to eliminate that solution. "
And I remember Merc were very interested in the details of the secret agreement until, IIRC, they had a meeting with the FIA and then agreed to drop their public protest.... hmmm.

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Big Tea
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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subcritical71 wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 8:49 pm
Xwang wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 3:20 pm
means:

"Someone gave the FIA some documents that showed how Ferrari interpreted the regulation too" boldly ". A mole, in agreement with Cavallino's competitors, allowed the International Federation to reopen the technical investigation into the engine. It was a clear violation of industrial secrecy and this makes us understand the reason for the notorious agreement. Ferrari did not receive penalties, but had to agree to eliminate that solution. "
And I remember Merc were very interested in the details of the secret agreement until, IIRC, they had a meeting with the FIA and then agreed to drop their public protest.... hmmm.
Was this around the time they were trying to get DAS accepted? :D
I am very much in favour of filtered water. Preferably passed through a brewery

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RZS10
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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It was a meeting between Elkann and Källenius but who cares about facts ...

there's also this quote from Wolff:

"We decided in Melbourne that for the start of the season, this additional controversy, plus corona, starting to get really bad in Italy, it was not the opportune moment. In this day and age of transparency, it's extremely important, and good governance is extremely important. The position that we are in is that we are monitoring the situation. We are not happy about last year. It has stretched all of us to a point to be competitive against Ferrari, where it was difficult to cope. Let's wait and see how the season starts and get going, and we will then re-assess for ourselves and probably with the other guys where it stands."