I would guess hydrogen out of a chemical reaction or pressurized in a tank and fed to the combustion would surely help getting performance but easy for the FiA to detect and plain cheating.PlatinumZealot wrote: ↑02 Aug 2020, 02:09Today i have been considerig that Ferrari could have used any of these things:
Hydrogen flames to start combustion. Hydrogen can either be stored in a tank (very dangerous) or maybe generated from a dense solid.. The gas would be fed into the chamber. Hydrogen flames are much faster than petrol and thus would really aid the TJI.
Ozone misting to stabilize combustion. (ozone generator powered by "Auxiliary" power take-off from ERS which is unlimited in the rules.
You don't think any of these are illegal?
I know EGR is not allowed, but any other way to 're use' a mix with un-burned value left in it?hape wrote: ↑02 Aug 2020, 13:54I would guess hydrogen out of a chemical reaction or pressurized in a tank and fed to the combustion would surely help getting performance but easy for the FiA to detect and plain cheating.PlatinumZealot wrote: ↑02 Aug 2020, 02:09Today i have been considerig that Ferrari could have used any of these things:
Hydrogen flames to start combustion. Hydrogen can either be stored in a tank (very dangerous) or maybe generated from a dense solid.. The gas would be fed into the chamber. Hydrogen flames are much faster than petrol and thus would really aid the TJI.
Ozone misting to stabilize combustion. (ozone generator powered by "Auxiliary" power take-off from ERS which is unlimited in the rules.
You don't think any of these are illegal?
My guess is they somehow managed to gain performance by getting higher flow then necessary in the braking zones, somehow have it stored in high pressure area just before the injectors. In the acceleration phase use it as an extra boost. The only thing that makes this theory fragil is that the FiA should be able to see that because the actual flow measured by the flowmeter doesn’t correspond with the sum of the flow through the injectors in these phases.
methane is easily generated from the fuel (eg it occurs in combustion anyway ) - and will do the abovePlatinumZealot wrote: ↑02 Aug 2020, 02:09... Ferrari could have used ..
Hydrogen flames to start combustion......Hydrogen flames are much faster than petrol and thus would really aid the TJI. ....
I was thinking of getting extra calorific content in without it coming through the injector and being regulated.
How much "unburned value" do you think there might be in an F1 exhaust? Don't forget they are operating ultra-lean and have the highest thermal efficiency of any ICE. Then you have to consider what fraction of that exhaust could be recycled through the combustion process.Big Tea wrote: ↑03 Aug 2020, 13:17I know EGR is not allowed, but any other way to 're use' a mix with un-burned value left in it?hape wrote: ↑02 Aug 2020, 13:54I would guess hydrogen out of a chemical reaction or pressurized in a tank and fed to the combustion would surely help getting performance but easy for the FiA to detect and plain cheating.PlatinumZealot wrote: ↑02 Aug 2020, 02:09Today i have been considerig that Ferrari could have used any of these things:
Hydrogen flames to start combustion. Hydrogen can either be stored in a tank (very dangerous) or maybe generated from a dense solid.. The gas would be fed into the chamber. Hydrogen flames are much faster than petrol and thus would really aid the TJI.
Ozone misting to stabilize combustion. (ozone generator powered by "Auxiliary" power take-off from ERS which is unlimited in the rules.
You don't think any of these are illegal?
My guess is they somehow managed to gain performance by getting higher flow then necessary in the braking zones, somehow have it stored in high pressure area just before the injectors. In the acceleration phase use it as an extra boost. The only thing that makes this theory fragil is that the FiA should be able to see that because the actual flow measured by the flowmeter doesn’t correspond with the sum of the flow through the injectors in these phases.
Normally yes, but I was considering a way to 'pre charge' it, artificially rich so it can be used at a point where more than the limited flow can be burned. As I said, I know it is a stupid idea as there is no way to store it even for seconds.gruntguru wrote: ↑03 Aug 2020, 23:22How much "unburned value" do you think there might be in an F1 exhaust? Don't forget they are operating ultra-lean and have the highest thermal efficiency of any ICE. Then you have to consider what fraction of that exhaust could be recycled through the combustion process.Big Tea wrote: ↑03 Aug 2020, 13:17I know EGR is not allowed, but any other way to 're use' a mix with un-burned value left in it?hape wrote: ↑02 Aug 2020, 13:54
I would guess hydrogen out of a chemical reaction or pressurized in a tank and fed to the combustion would surely help getting performance but easy for the FiA to detect and plain cheating.
My guess is they somehow managed to gain performance by getting higher flow then necessary in the braking zones, somehow have it stored in high pressure area just before the injectors. In the acceleration phase use it as an extra boost. The only thing that makes this theory fragil is that the FiA should be able to see that because the actual flow measured by the flowmeter doesn’t correspond with the sum of the flow through the injectors in these phases.
presumably ...gruntguru wrote: ↑03 Aug 2020, 23:22.... How much "unburned value" do you think there might be in an F1 exhaust? Don't forget they are operating ultra-lean and have the highest thermal efficiency of any ICE. Then you have to consider what fraction of that exhaust could be recycled through the combustion process.
I can't find it now, but wasn't there a TD which focused on fuel flow vs. torque demand or pedal position?? If I remember that correctly, then how much does that TD not all this H recovery? When I (think I read) that TD, I saw that as effectively neutering the approach, but their may still be scope to exploit within the rules.Mudflap wrote: ↑04 Aug 2020, 00:59Well they can and they do actually.
At part load demand where less than 100 kg/h is required they can burn the excess in the combustion chamber and harvest it with the K or have a retarded spark and allow some of it to burn in the exhaust where it can be harvested by the H.