[ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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On a different Note Wolff and Mercedes Board are pondering what to do with Niki Lauda's shares.... Perhaps Lewis could make a proposal?

https://www.planetf1.com/news/liverpool ... oto-wolff/
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dans79
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
29 Jul 2020, 14:23
On a different Note Wolff and Mercedes Board are pondering what to do with Niki Lauda's shares.... Perhaps Lewis could make a proposal?

https://www.planetf1.com/news/liverpool ... oto-wolff/
It's a good way to get around the salary cap, just pay the driver in company shares.
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littlebigcat
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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Driver isn't included in the cap

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dans79
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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littlebigcat wrote:
29 Jul 2020, 14:50
Driver isn't included in the cap
There is a push to cap driver pay as well.
https://www.racefans.net/2020/07/14/why ... itability/
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Schuttelberg
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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“We are very happy with our driver pairing.

Both are fast. On a bad day for Lewis, Valtteri is there. And on a good day Lewis is unbeatable. The dynamics and the atmosphere between the two is right, which is very important.

When you have two egomaniacs on the team, the team championship is going to be difficult. Both respect the team and the influence they have on the team’s mood. That’s why they are the best solution for us.

With George Russell it was clear that he still has one more year at Williams. Esteban [Ocon] will be at Renault until next year too.”


I think this pretty much tells us what we already know. The Mercedes is fast enough to win every race as of now and this is about as much honesty as we can expect from Wolff.

I don't buy some of the made up rubbish that Bottas isn't preferred and is the number 2 etc etc etc. Hamilton is simply the better driver and Bottas can bring up the points tally because of the Mercedes superiority. He's not going to ruffle the feathers or crash into people and he also knows that with his talent a championship is only possible in a Mercedes type situation where he can snag a world title out of thin air if Hamilton has poor reliability.

Toto can't be honest forever and that's why the BS on Russell and Ocon. I am dead certain that the Merc's will win both titles at a canter this and the following year. The interesting bit will happen next year if Russell isn't promoted because I think that kid is being wasted in that Williams and I don't see him hanging around waiting on Mercedes forever. I also wouldn't put it past Red Bull to try and coup him in order to destabilise the Mercedes YDP and at the same time bag a heck of talent.

Personally, I see absolutely no change in this line up as long as Mercedes has the best car and Hamilton is willing to continue which he will as long as Mercedes has the best car.
"Sebastian there's very, you're a member of a very select few.. Stewart, Lauda, Piquet, Senna, Prost, Schumacher, Fangio.. VETTEL!"

Wynters
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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Schuttelberg wrote:
29 Jul 2020, 16:09
The interesting bit will happen next year if Russell isn't promoted because I think that kid is being wasted in that Williams and I don't see him hanging around waiting on Mercedes forever.
It would be better for his development for him to be moved to a midfield team but, as long as Mercedes is at the front (clear or battling), then I think it makes sense for Russell to just bide his time.

If you believe you have the talent to win a WDC, then it's all about being in the right car. On a rare year, there may be two 'right' cars but for there's generally only one and, right now, the smart money seems to be on Mercedes being right up there. I think I'd rather gamble on spending eight years at Williams and then two years in a Mercedes than end up on the Ricciardo / Kubica route. That would change if someone younger and fast came up through the Mercedes ranks though.

One thing I would do as Toto, is make sure Russell is promoted at least one year before Hamilton retires. The opportunity for knowledge transfer (active or passive) is just too great.

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Unf
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
29 Jul 2020, 14:21
Unf wrote:
22 Jul 2020, 00:06
El Scorchio wrote:
21 Jul 2020, 23:37
You mean like in the Austrian Grand Prix, when Bottas was ahead and the Mercedes team did...... NOTHING to ‘stop’ him?

Even after Hamilton got his penalty they could have ordered Bottas to let him past to even preserve second place for their ‘preferred driver’. But they didn’t. If Mercedes favoured Hamilton above Bottas then they’d have let him past.

Your argument just makes no sense.
Do you really think that I am talking about doing it - like that - in 1st race? How can I take your comment serious then?
It is obvious that I was reffering to situation when Hamilton's WDC would be in danger - then Mercedes are going to do everything for bringing Lewis back to the top, including put Bottas behind if he would be ahead of Ham.

Ps: Jackles-UK - thanks for reasonable post, 1st there from long time.
I am a little confused too. So your claim then, is that Bottas is designated number 2, but he is allowed to steal points of Hamilton until somepoint (which i hope you specify) in the championship where he must pull aside if Hamilton's WDC is in danger?

This is confusing! This is not a number 2 arrangement! This a normal affair between teammates. In a number 2 arrangement Bottas would have to pull aside whether or not Hamilon's WDC is in danger. And as a matter of fact if for whatever reason Hamilton's WDC was in danger by Bottas! himself, Bottas would not even be allowed to lead the race before the first round of pitstops. That is a number 2 contract.

I have never seen contracted Number 2 situation at Mercedes.
Somehow I am getting sure that most of you guys are British... that would clarify all comments.
As I said - I don't want to argue anymore, it's worthless. I am just waiting for next races... evidences would be there automatically.

Just_a_fan
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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Unf wrote:
29 Jul 2020, 18:17


Somehow I am getting sure that most of you guys are British... that would clarify all comments.
As I said - I don't want to argue anymore, it's worthless. I am just waiting for next races... evidences would be there automatically.
Trust me, Hamilton is not universally liked in Britain. Far from it. Many hate his guts even though they've never met him.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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Unf wrote:
29 Jul 2020, 18:17

Somehow I am getting sure that most of you guys are British... that would clarify all comments.
As I said - I don't want to argue anymore, it's worthless. I am just waiting for next races... evidences would be there automatically.
I would jump with glee if HAM got a number 2 so all those records with fall... But.. I recognized, and he himself has stated, that he has no such thing in his contracts. He has taken pride in that all his teammates are given equal opportunity. He has said on a few occassions that Alonso, Vettel and Max had number 1 in their contracts. Not sure how true this is, but there is some truth to it since none of those drivers ever refuted it.
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dans79
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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Unf wrote:
29 Jul 2020, 18:17
Somehow I am getting sure that most of you guys are British... that would clarify all comments.
<- American
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Schuttelberg
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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Wynters wrote:
29 Jul 2020, 16:33
Schuttelberg wrote:
29 Jul 2020, 16:09
The interesting bit will happen next year if Russell isn't promoted because I think that kid is being wasted in that Williams and I don't see him hanging around waiting on Mercedes forever.
It would be better for his development for him to be moved to a midfield team but, as long as Mercedes is at the front (clear or battling), then I think it makes sense for Russell to just bide his time.

If you believe you have the talent to win a WDC, then it's all about being in the right car. On a rare year, there may be two 'right' cars but for there's generally only one and, right now, the smart money seems to be on Mercedes being right up there. I think I'd rather gamble on spending eight years at Williams and then two years in a Mercedes than end up on the Ricciardo / Kubica route. That would change if someone younger and fast came up through the Mercedes ranks though.

One thing I would do as Toto, is make sure Russell is promoted at least one year before Hamilton retires. The opportunity for knowledge transfer (active or passive) is just too great.
Hamilton joined a championship winning team on debut and drove a car capable of winning it. Why should Russell have to spend more years floundering around for podiums and wins if he can entice a team like RBR? This logic of bedding them in or warming them up is really over rated and devoid of facts.

You are also basing everything on the assumption that Mercedes will dominate the sport for another 10 years. For you to suggest that Russell should perhaps even spend another 5 years at Williams after the next in the hope for a Mercedes drive is totally unrealistic. Mercedes can make another 2014 car and if they keep refuting George, he will jump. Just look at Sainz. History doesn't always mean it tells the future but it does suggest that while Mercedes has been making beasts on the track, their YDP has been a big waste/sham. After Hamilton, they've promoted exactly nobody and Wehrlein and Ocon both were ready for the step up but Bottas continues.
"Sebastian there's very, you're a member of a very select few.. Stewart, Lauda, Piquet, Senna, Prost, Schumacher, Fangio.. VETTEL!"

Just_a_fan
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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dans79 wrote:
29 Jul 2020, 18:53
Unf wrote:
29 Jul 2020, 18:17
Somehow I am getting sure that most of you guys are British... that would clarify all comments.
<- American
But we still love you anyway... :lol: :lol: =D>
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

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El Scorchio
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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Schuttelberg wrote:
30 Jul 2020, 03:38
Wynters wrote:
29 Jul 2020, 16:33
Schuttelberg wrote:
29 Jul 2020, 16:09
The interesting bit will happen next year if Russell isn't promoted because I think that kid is being wasted in that Williams and I don't see him hanging around waiting on Mercedes forever.
It would be better for his development for him to be moved to a midfield team but, as long as Mercedes is at the front (clear or battling), then I think it makes sense for Russell to just bide his time.

If you believe you have the talent to win a WDC, then it's all about being in the right car. On a rare year, there may be two 'right' cars but for there's generally only one and, right now, the smart money seems to be on Mercedes being right up there. I think I'd rather gamble on spending eight years at Williams and then two years in a Mercedes than end up on the Ricciardo / Kubica route. That would change if someone younger and fast came up through the Mercedes ranks though.

One thing I would do as Toto, is make sure Russell is promoted at least one year before Hamilton retires. The opportunity for knowledge transfer (active or passive) is just too great.
Hamilton joined a championship winning team on debut and drove a car capable of winning it. Why should Russell have to spend more years floundering around for podiums and wins if he can entice a team like RBR? This logic of bedding them in or warming them up is really over rated and devoid of facts.

You are also basing everything on the assumption that Mercedes will dominate the sport for another 10 years. For you to suggest that Russell should perhaps even spend another 5 years at Williams after the next in the hope for a Mercedes drive is totally unrealistic. Mercedes can make another 2014 car and if they keep refuting George, he will jump. Just look at Sainz. History doesn't always mean it tells the future but it does suggest that while Mercedes has been making beasts on the track, their YDP has been a big waste/sham. After Hamilton, they've promoted exactly nobody and Wehrlein and Ocon both were ready for the step up but Bottas continues.
Agree with the first part. If Russell is up to it (like Hamilton was) then he'll just flourish straight away. The best drivers are the ones who can be put in any car and almost immediately understand it and get the maximum possible performance from it. My feeling is we've seen that from Russell over his career so far. I don't think he needs to spend time in a midfield team. It certainly did LeClerc and Verstappen no harm to be fast tracked into high performing equipment and they'v largely handled it very well. Some drivers may crack under pressure but I don't see Russell as one of those.

As far as Mercedes deciding to promote him, I think it depends on whether they see him genuinely as the real deal. If they do then they won't risk him going elsewhere. I think maybe they weren't totally sold on Ocon or Wehrlein and they clearly have a great formula with Bottas and Hamilton at the moment. Seems inevitable that Russell will be in sooner or later, but as a repleacement for who? If Hamilton wins this year and next he may call it a day. If Russell won't wait that long, then maybe Bottas has to make way. I feel Bottas is keeping the seat warm for Hamilton's heir apparent.

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El Scorchio
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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Unf wrote:
29 Jul 2020, 18:17
PlatinumZealot wrote:
29 Jul 2020, 14:21
Unf wrote:
22 Jul 2020, 00:06


Do you really think that I am talking about doing it - like that - in 1st race? How can I take your comment serious then?
It is obvious that I was reffering to situation when Hamilton's WDC would be in danger - then Mercedes are going to do everything for bringing Lewis back to the top, including put Bottas behind if he would be ahead of Ham.

Ps: Jackles-UK - thanks for reasonable post, 1st there from long time.
I am a little confused too. So your claim then, is that Bottas is designated number 2, but he is allowed to steal points of Hamilton until somepoint (which i hope you specify) in the championship where he must pull aside if Hamilton's WDC is in danger?

This is confusing! This is not a number 2 arrangement! This a normal affair between teammates. In a number 2 arrangement Bottas would have to pull aside whether or not Hamilon's WDC is in danger. And as a matter of fact if for whatever reason Hamilton's WDC was in danger by Bottas! himself, Bottas would not even be allowed to lead the race before the first round of pitstops. That is a number 2 contract.

I have never seen contracted Number 2 situation at Mercedes.
Somehow I am getting sure that most of you guys are British... that would clarify all comments.
As I said - I don't want to argue anymore, it's worthless. I am just waiting for next races... evidences would be there automatically.
By all means carry on looking for it, but ultimately I think you're searching for things that aren't there. Feel free to share your observations from the upcoming races though.

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Phil
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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Schuttelberg wrote:
30 Jul 2020, 03:38
History doesn't always mean it tells the future but it does suggest that while Mercedes has been making beasts on the track, their YDP has been a big waste/sham. After Hamilton, they've promoted exactly nobody and Wehrlein and Ocon both were ready for the step up but Bottas continues.
I'm not sure the "competition" is much better in what their YDP achieves. RedBull has effectively put all their eggs in Max's basket - the result being that they lost Daniel Riccardo. Along the way, they have alienated drivers with huge prospects (-> Buemi, Alguarsuari), one of which has continued to be very successful.

If they lose Max, good luck with their remaining drivers, as none of them seem up to the job of stepping up. There's also the fact that every year, F2 produces a new champion and new talent, but F1 drivers generally tend to stay a couple of years and have long careers (10+ years). With limited seats and drives, it can't add up.

Mercedes also doesn't have a second team (like RedBull has). All they can do is make it more lucrative for their customer teams to take their junior drivers. Some might be willing to, not all might want to. Torro-Rosso, I mean Alpha Tauri doesn't have a choice.

Same applies to Ferrari somewhat. Who is their next young prospect after Leclerc? Giovinazzi?
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
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