[ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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Wass85
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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Dazed1 wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 4:59 pm
Wass85 wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 3:55 pm
El Scorchio wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 3:50 pm


I definitely remember him asking some rhetorical questions in the heat of the moment during and after races and retirements- as all drivers do when they are frustrated- but I wouldn't exactly equate that to 'throwing the team under the bus'.
Obviously he never thew anybody directly under the bus but we know he was hinting at more out of direct frustration.
There was a time in 2016 when I was convinced the left rear tire change was always .5s slower for Hamilton. Who knows. :)
It's clearly just a case of putting two and two together though because if it truly was the case then the team would have ensured Nico also won in 2014 and 2015.

I

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Morteza
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."~William Shakespeare

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Moore77
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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This discussion did not belong in Car thread, so posting here in team thread.

viewtopic.php?p=923311#p923311
ispano6 wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:44 am
Moore77 wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 7:17 am
It really makes me chuckle looking at this debate! Mercedes' current chief designer John Owen is with this team since 2007, when the team was Honda F1. He was the Principal Aerodynamicist at Honda! :) These horns came in 2008 Honda car. So one can assume, those horns have moved along with John.
Yes, credit should go to where credit is due. Vandoorne said it as well, the reason why the Mercedes team is so strong is because of the continuity of personnel from the last 15 years. That would make it the 2005 Honda team(car side) + Mercedes PU department since Mercedes was still a supplier to McLaren at the time.
Stoffel Vandoorne says the culture inside the Mercedes team is what makes it so dominant.

"The group of people here have been working together for 15 years basically. They know each other so well because there is so little staff turnover.
https://www.sportsmole.co.uk/formula-1/ ... 11680.html
I agree. Credit where it is due. The current Mercedes F1 team, which was BrawnGP, which was Honda F1 racing, which was BAR and finally, which was Tyrell. The genesis of this success starts with Tyrell being the foundation. Not until the Mercedes engine sat in their chassis, that they could win a championship. :)

The true architect of the success of this team, is Ross Brawn. There is a podcast interview of Ross Brawn on F1.com where he says, when he took over the BAR Honda reins, the team was in poor shape. The Honda management thought, it was chassis which was bad and Engine was great. But when Brawn met the management after having a deeper analysis and presented the fact that, Engine was equally poor, the Honda management showed utter disbelief because they were made to believe that the Engine was rocket and car was crap.

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/arch ... the-legend
Brawn arrived too late, however, to have much influence on the 2008 car, which proved to be yet another dog, Rubens Barrichello scoring 11 points, Button only three.

“We all know,” says Ross, “that aerodynamics form the fundamental platform of a modern F1 car, but Loïc Bigois and others hadn’t been here long, and hadn’t had the opportunity to put the best package together. No one had a vision of what sort of car they wanted to create.

The other thing was that Honda believed they had the best engine in F1, and it had to be made clear to them that they didn’t! The chassis wasn’t great – and the engine wasn’t great. Those were the facts.”
When Honda stepped out, Brawn had to lay off 275 people from the race team.
https://www.autoevolution.com/news/braw ... -5363.html

Since Brawn GP became Mercedes, there was attrition also overtime. Some of those who survived were the likes of James Vowell, Andy Shovlin and Ron Meadows, who are extremely efficient people, but mostly on the operations side. The Chassis side wasn't great until the induction of the likes of Bob Bell, Geoff Willis and Aldo Costa. The chassis team then went from around 400+ people in 2010 to close to 1000 people in the last 8 years. So, essentially, the greatest portion and the most effective part on the aero and vehicle dynamics, is all new.
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Moore77
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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Gangdom: Pom, Tom, Loverboy, Boomer.

dans79
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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The entire team is starting to get a little feisty, i like it.

https://www.racefans.net/2020/09/04/mer ... -mode-ban/
“I understand the dynamics in this sport,” he said. “It’s not the first time that teams that run away with a championship are penalised or were trying to be to be slowed down by the other teams, by the FIA and by the commercial rights holder. So I very much understand that dynamic.”

The ban on ‘quali modes’ is being enforced through a new technical directive. Wolff said this has motivated them to adapt their power unit to the changed restrictions.

“We, as a team, took it the right way in sportsmanship,” he said. “I remember Hywel [Thomas] who runs the engine group now [said] ‘OK, if that’s it, then we will be running qualifying mode all through the race next year’. And maybe sometimes you need this extra motivation to push yourself over the limits.”
164 98 95 7

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Big Tea
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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dans79 wrote:
Fri Sep 04, 2020 5:24 pm
The entire team is starting to get a little feisty, i like it.

https://www.racefans.net/2020/09/04/mer ... -mode-ban/
“I understand the dynamics in this sport,” he said. “It’s not the first time that teams that run away with a championship are penalised or were trying to be to be slowed down by the other teams, by the FIA and by the commercial rights holder. So I very much understand that dynamic.”

The ban on ‘quali modes’ is being enforced through a new technical directive. Wolff said this has motivated them to adapt their power unit to the changed restrictions.

“We, as a team, took it the right way in sportsmanship,” he said. “I remember Hywel [Thomas] who runs the engine group now [said] ‘OK, if that’s it, then we will be running qualifying mode all through the race next year’. And maybe sometimes you need this extra motivation to push yourself over the limits.”
Fireworks and red faces, bring it on :evil: :twisted: =D>
We are standing on the shoulders of Giants. So watch your feet.

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siskue2005
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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Big Tea wrote:
Fri Sep 04, 2020 5:46 pm
dans79 wrote:
Fri Sep 04, 2020 5:24 pm
The entire team is starting to get a little feisty, i like it.

https://www.racefans.net/2020/09/04/mer ... -mode-ban/
“I understand the dynamics in this sport,” he said. “It’s not the first time that teams that run away with a championship are penalised or were trying to be to be slowed down by the other teams, by the FIA and by the commercial rights holder. So I very much understand that dynamic.”

The ban on ‘quali modes’ is being enforced through a new technical directive. Wolff said this has motivated them to adapt their power unit to the changed restrictions.

“We, as a team, took it the right way in sportsmanship,” he said. “I remember Hywel [Thomas] who runs the engine group now [said] ‘OK, if that’s it, then we will be running qualifying mode all through the race next year’. And maybe sometimes you need this extra motivation to push yourself over the limits.”
Fireworks and red faces, bring it on :evil: :twisted: =D>
Yes :twisted: =D>

holeindalip
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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Is this true can anyone confirm they didn’t run full qualy mode and didn’t change engine modes in the race??

https://www.planetf1.com/news/mercedes- ... er-at-spa/

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search
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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I don't think anyone here can say for sure, but it was Mercedes worst qualifying this year (based on the gap to P3), and also Racing Point was surprisingly umcompetitive on Saturday, so it would make sense at least, as on paper it was a good track for both.

I'd say "0,6-0,7 tenths" in the race is more down to saving tires than the engine though. Wouldn't read too much into that

holeindalip
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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search wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 6:10 am
I don't think anyone here can say for sure, but it was Mercedes worst qualifying this year (based on the gap to P3), and also Racing Point was surprisingly umcompetitive on Saturday, so it would make sense at least, as on paper it was a good track for both.

I'd say "0,6-0,7 tenths" in the race is more down to saving tires than the engine though. Wouldn't read too much into that
I agree with the tires in the race but if that was true for qualy, that would have put them 1 sec+ with the new upgrades over Red Bull....

Monza qualy just cemented that....

ispano6
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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Looks like Mercedes had concerns with cooling and used the red flag to change out radiator duct and body panels and opened it up for cooling. Analysis starts from 31:46 . They are showing the stewards the parts they want to replace them with.

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SiLo
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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ispano6 wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 12:02 am
Looks like Mercedes had concerns with cooling and used the red flag to change out radiator duct and body panels and opened it up for cooling. Analysis starts from 31:46 . They are showing the stewards the parts they want to replace them with.
Likely because they knew both cars would be running in traffic.
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Moore77
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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ispano6 wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 12:02 am
Looks like Mercedes had concerns with cooling and used the red flag to change out radiator duct and body panels and opened it up for cooling. Analysis starts from 31:46 . They are showing the stewards the parts they want to replace them with.
h ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WNq7dIdCO4&t=1894
Mercedes designs their aero, assuming they would always run in free air. It's aggressive, but provides aero gains as in reality, they do run in clean air. When they have to run behind cars, they face PU overheating problems. This has been observed many times in the past. In one such instance, back in Canada 2018, the team could change some cooling settings at the pit stop.

https://formularapida.net/mercedes-talk ... on-in-pit/
He revealed that they change some cooling settings during the pit stop which allowed Hamilton to be far quicker and close the gap to Vettel. Mercedes hoped for a safety car in extending Hamilton’s first stint but stopping earlier may have helped them.

“You can see in the second stint, we were a lot quicker, some of this was because we were able to make some cooling changes in pit stop, that suddenly meant that Lewis could driver harder and we could push up behind Sebastian,” he said. “Now if we had known that we had that pace difference, we would have definitely have a go at an undercut.”
With there being a possibility to change some of the cooling settings on the fly, a red flag like situation provides even better opportunity to perform bigger changes. Given the fact that, Bottas had already struggled in the first sting and with a penalty, Hamilton was set to run behind cars, they did the cooling changes.

With a change in the engine mode directive, this is also a discovery for most manufacturers in terms of what it means from a cooling requirements perspective, especially given that the temperatures sore in the race. I mentioned this in Red Bull forum that, we might see more conservative engine covers in Mugello and may be bigger cooling openings at the back of the engine covers.
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ispano6
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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If there was no red flag and Hamilton still had to take his penalty, Mercedes would not have been afforded the luxury to change that much bodywork. The power units were going to suffer otherwise such a change would not have been made.

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Moore77
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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ispano6 wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:06 pm
If there was no red flag and Hamilton still had to take his penalty, Mercedes would not have been afforded the luxury to change that much bodywork. The power units were going to suffer otherwise such a change would not have been made.
In the end, it wouldn't have made the difference. Just like Bottas was surviving, he would have survived just fine, who knows? Hamilton never really complained as he was in the lead. Without a red flag and with a penalty, he probably would have not finished as high, if his car wasn't changed. But he didn't spend much time behind the back markers as he made a quick work of them. So, even without any changes, the situation would have been no different for him.
Gangdom: Pom, Tom, Loverboy, Boomer.