2020 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, September 4 - 6

[Wass85]

He doesn't. He catches Albon 3 laps sooner, for Albon and Him. Also once he passes Albon the next car down the road is closer as it has not stretched out from Albon, and so on through the field.

I disagree with that, he catches Albon on the same lap, whether he pits on lap 28, 29 or lap 30

No, he catches him on 28, 29, or 30. 25, 24 or 23 laps to get up the field. If the race finished 3 laps sooner for Lewis he may not have made the final pass or 2 as his tyres would be older and the cars he passed could drain the electric energy

You're falling for the trap I did when I was questioning it.

If Hamilton stays out two laps longer that just means he has two less laps at the back of the field, it doesn't really change things.

[214270]

He doesn't. He catches Albon 3 laps sooner, for Albon and Him. Also once he passes Albon the next car down the road is closer as it has not stretched out from Albon, and so on through the field.

I disagree with that, he catches Albon on the same lap, whether he pits on lap 28, 29 or lap 30

No, he catches him on 28, 29, or 30. 25, 24 or 23 laps to get up the field. If the race finished 3 laps sooner for Lewis he may not have made the final pass or 2 as his tyres would be older and the cars he passed could drain the electric energy

Speed = Distance / Time

If the speed is the same (which it would be at the front or back) and the distance to ALB is the same (which again it would be), it’s the same time.

[Restomaniac]

He doesn't. He catches Albon 3 laps sooner, for Albon and Him. Also once he passes Albon the next car down the road is closer as it has not stretched out from Albon, and so on through the field.

I disagree with that, he catches Albon on the same lap, whether he pits on lap 28, 29 or lap 30

No, he catches him on 28, 29, or 30. 25, 24 or 23 laps to get up the field. If the race finished 3 laps sooner for Lewis he may not have made the final pass or 2 as his tyres would be older and the cars he passed could drain the electric energy

I honestly think you are misreading this.

He was in clear air in both cases.
If he waits 2 laps he has lost 2 laps for his chase to the pack but is 5 seconds nearer the pack.
If he doesn’t wait 2 laps he has 2 laps more for his chase to the pack but is then 5 seconds further away from the pack.

The net result is the same.

[Schuttelberg]

Bottas

He will win may be a couple of races when Lewis is having some issue some weekend. But, he is by far the worst driver on the grid. I cannot remember a worse driver in a better car!

[Wass85]

Hamilton is a driver rather than a strategist. It’s not his job to think about all the permutations of ‘what if’ another safety car happens immediately after the restart and how it might have an impact on the rest of his race depending on what lap he serves his penalty on. He won’t have considered the situation beyond the pure racing aspect and nor should he.

James Vowles as they head of strategy IS paid to think of these things so he just got on the radio to tell Hamilton it was strategically the best thing to do. Its such a trivial thing. I really don’t see the point in harping on about it and using it as a stick to beat Hamilton with.

I'm not beating Hamilton up over it because I thought the same as him at the time, I'm just amused at the hypocrisy from certain posters who are trying their best to save his reputation whilst having a dig at me for the same mistake.

[El Scorchio]

Bottas

He will win may be a couple of races when Lewis is having some issue some weekend. But, he is by far the worst driver on the grid. I cannot remember a worse driver in a better car!

As much as I think you’re very much over exaggerating with your judgement of Bottas, this is quite a fun game. I’ll say Frentzen in the Williams in 1997.

[Big Tea]

I disagree with that, he catches Albon on the same lap, whether he pits on lap 28, 29 or lap 30

No, he catches him on 28, 29, or 30. 25, 24 or 23 laps to get up the field. If the race finished 3 laps sooner for Lewis he may not have made the final pass or 2 as his tyres would be older and the cars he passed could drain the electric energy

I honestly think you are misreading this.

He was in clear air in both cases.
If he waits 2 laps he has lost 2 laps for his chase to the pack but is 5 seconds nearer the pack.
If he doesn’t wait 2 laps he has 2 laps more for his chase to the pack but is then 5 seconds further away from the pack.

The net result is the same.

OK Restomaniac, 214270, and Wass85 and others, I can see I have to consider this.
They say if you can keep your head while all about loose theirs, you probably do not understand the problem

[NathanOlder]

He doesn't. He catches Albon 3 laps sooner, for Albon and Him. Also once he passes Albon the next car down the road is closer as it has not stretched out from Albon, and so on through the field.

I disagree with that, he catches Albon on the same lap, whether he pits on lap 28, 29 or lap 30

No, he catches him on 28, 29, or 30. 25, 24 or 23 laps to get up the field. If the race finished 3 laps sooner for Lewis he may not have made the final pass or 2 as his tyres would be older and the cars he passed could drain the electric energy

I still don't agree, my reasoning is, There were 25 laps to go. For arguments sake, lets say Lewis is 2 seconds a lap faster than albon. at the restart Lewis is 10 seconds agead of Albon, but has a 30 second penalty. if he does 1 lap then stops, the gap would be 18 seconds to albon (10 seconds at start, + 2 sec for 1 lap, thn serves the 30sec pen) then it takes Lewis 9 laps to close the 18 second gap at 2 sec a lap. Lewis was in clean air up until 4 seconds (example) behind Albon so was in dirty air 8 laps after the restart.

if lewis stops on lap 3 he adds 2 seconds a lap to his lead over Albon, then pits. he had a 16 lead over albon, so comes out 14 seconds behind Albon, he stays in clean air until he gets to 4 seconds behind albon, it takes him 5 laps to get to the dirty air at 2 seconds a lap. So those 5 laps, + the 3 before he stopped means he got to albons dirty air 8 laps after the restart.

Both scenarios are exactly the same.

[El Scorchio]

Just listening to Ted’s notebook, and he’s explaining how the pit lane closed procedure works. It’s absolutely ridiculous! They don’t even announce it to the teams. It just appears on page 4 of the timing screens. You’d think it was such an important thing in the context of a race- even if it’s a rare occurrence- they’d send out an all teams message immediately from race control. That needs fixing.

[Unc1eM0nty]

At least Lewis put to bed the belief that the Mercedes isn't any good in dirty air!

Lewis was mighty through Parabolica, even when following he could carry so much speed through there.

[Restomaniac]

No, he catches him on 28, 29, or 30. 25, 24 or 23 laps to get up the field. If the race finished 3 laps sooner for Lewis he may not have made the final pass or 2 as his tyres would be older and the cars he passed could drain the electric energy

I honestly think you are misreading this.

He was in clear air in both cases.
If he waits 2 laps he has lost 2 laps for his chase to the pack but is 5 seconds nearer the pack.
If he doesn’t wait 2 laps he has 2 laps more for his chase to the pack but is then 5 seconds further away from the pack.

The net result is the same.

OK Restomaniac, 214270, and Wass85 and others, I can see I have to consider this.
They say if you can keep your head while all about loose theirs, you probably do not understand the problem

Not too long though......It makes you go cross eyed.

[ispano6]

Karma for what?

Mercedes got penalized.


Great drive by Gasly, I think he wanted that for AH. Was rooting for Carlos, but I’m not upset about Pierre at all.

I'm Buddhist, so maybe it's hard for others to understand.

noun
noun: karma

(in Hinduism and Buddhism) the sum of a person's actions in this and previous states of existence, viewed as deciding their fate in future existences.

Westerners have a different view of the word, as if it means to get even or something negative as in getting what they deserved. It does not have such connotation since it is Sanskrit.

We all understand the concept of karma, but can you tell us why it applies in this case?

It applies to each and everyone of us at all times. To the Honda engineers, to the AT team, Pierre, and all the fans rooting for them.

[Mandrake]

Why the hell was a safety car activated instead of a virtual safety car?

If I were Merc I'd be having a few choice words with those numpties at race control.

Because we have a ex-V8 Supercar race director now, so the decisions are taken more conservatively like they are in Australian racing. Full safety car for nearly everything (debris, car on the track, whatever), to maximise safety for the marshalls.

If you familiarise yourself with the V8 Supercar championship, you will note this is standard practice.

I believe the VSC in F1 is just not suited for this. In iLMS they have a pit limiter set to what? 80kph? 120kph? That is slow enough for the drivers to not make a mistake as they are basically cruising at a given max speed.

In F1 they'd drive to a delta, sometimes quicker, sometimes faster. Some drivers (ahem....Grosjean) manage to spin out behind Safety car. I doubt anyone would risk an F1 car driving to the delta only (meaning still too fast) spinning into the recovering marshalls.

And then there is human error. Ham and Gio pitted, imagine they were surprised by the marshals moving the car and losing control crashing into them......

[Wass85]

No, he catches him on 28, 29, or 30. 25, 24 or 23 laps to get up the field. If the race finished 3 laps sooner for Lewis he may not have made the final pass or 2 as his tyres would be older and the cars he passed could drain the electric energy

I honestly think you are misreading this.

He was in clear air in both cases.
If he waits 2 laps he has lost 2 laps for his chase to the pack but is 5 seconds nearer the pack.
If he doesn’t wait 2 laps he has 2 laps more for his chase to the pack but is then 5 seconds further away from the pack.

The net result is the same.

OK Restomaniac, 214270, and Wass85 and others, I can see I have to consider this.
They say if you can keep your head while all about loose theirs, you probably do not understand the problem

I was thinking the same as you at the time in my frustration with the team.

I do though think performance wise it would have been beneficial to put on the 3rd lap as you're doing so on warmer tyres so in theory you should be straight back up to speed quicker.

Of course they couldn't risk that because of a chance of a safety car whilst cars are battling.

I do find it amusing though that some are defending Hamilton for thinking the same and have the cheek to have a dig at others.

[Big Tea]

I disagree with that, he catches Albon on the same lap, whether he pits on lap 28, 29 or lap 30

No, he catches him on 28, 29, or 30. 25, 24 or 23 laps to get up the field. If the race finished 3 laps sooner for Lewis he may not have made the final pass or 2 as his tyres would be older and the cars he passed could drain the electric energy

I still don't agree, my reasoning is, There were 25 laps to go. For arguments sake, lets say Lewis is 2 seconds a lap faster than albon. at the restart Lewis is 10 seconds agead of Albon, but has a 30 second penalty. if he does 1 lap then stops, the gap would be 18 seconds to albon (10 seconds at start, + 2 sec for 1 lap, thn serves the 30sec pen) then it takes Lewis 9 laps to close the 18 second gap at 2 sec a lap. Lewis was in clean air up until 4 seconds (example) behind Albon so was in dirty air 8 laps after the restart.

if lewis stops on lap 3 he adds 2 seconds a lap to his lead over Albon, then pits. he had a 16 lead over albon, so comes out 14 seconds behind Albon, he stays in clean air until he gets to 4 seconds behind albon, it takes him 5 laps to get to the dirty air at 2 seconds a lap. So those 5 laps, + the 3 before he stopped means he got to albons dirty air 8 laps after the restart.

Both scenarios are exactly the same.

Yeh, if you see the post above yours, I am beginning to think I have gone wrong.

To me, catching the pack more closely bunched is always going to be an advantage as the drivers have more than you to watch.

No doubt a safety car would change things but. there wasn't one.

I think time to retire