2020 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, September 4 - 6

[Moore77]

I think mercedes didnt take tows in qualy because they already knew its gonna cook the engine

In one lap? No way. If that was the case, Bottas's engine would have being a molten puddle on the track by lap 5.

It might have been if they didn't change out the body work during the red flag.

Like this?
https://www.racefans.net/2020/09/06/ver ... etirement/

Lap 28 Verstappen Three cars pass Verstappen at the restart.
The fu ck!ng engine is hot, mate. What a joke.
28 To Verstappen: Mode six.
28 Verstappen: It’s still hot. I mean, what do you want me to do?
29 To Verstappen: Nothing for the moment.
29 Verstappen: Another car passes Mate, what can I do?
29 To Verstappen: Stand by Max, I’ll get back to you.
29 Verstappen: It’s not working. It’s fu cked.
29 To Verstappen: Engine 13 position nine please Max.
29 To Verstappen: Engine one position seven.
30 Verstappen: Fukc.
30 Verstappen: It’s still broken.
30 To Verstappen: Stand by, Max.
30 To Verstappen: I’ll have an answer for you in a minute. Max.
30 To Verstappen: Box, pit confirm please Max, Box.
30 Verstappen: I’m in.
30 To Verstappen: Stop on the marks and switch off please.
30 Verstappen: Fu ck!ng joke, this.

[Shrieker]

Anyone know the crash speed of Leclerc ? My guess would be over 200.

[hollus]

I tried to extract the closest frames from the highlights in the F1 site.
The first frame might sit 1st or second in the sequence, I am not sure. The last frame is last.
They are not the best quality, but to me it looks like the halo stopped the tires from going into Leclerc's helmet, or more precisely, the halo stopped the car before his helmet went into the tires.

[Sieper]

Consider where Gasly was at the mid-way point of 2019... to where he is now. Yes, these are unique circumstances, but in an environment where he is more relaxed and supported and driving like he is able to. Honestly, really happy for him.

I truly hope he gets a chance again in another top team... and not in Red Bull.

Had Sainz had 1 more Lap... he might've gotten it, but either way this was going to be a special result for either of these 2 drivers.

Fascinating race!

Funny you say that. Because he would never be got the chance to win if he was driving for RedBull! Lol. He is probably better off than Albon at the moment.

Funny you say that as Albon already missed out on a big chance to win a race in Austria.

[Just_a_fan]

but to me it looks like the halo stopped the tires from going into Leclerc's helmet, or more precisely, the halo stopped the car before his helmet went into the tires.

Shout out for the HANS device too. You can see his head movement even with it - the full footage shows it well. Would have an injury of some form, even just a neck strain but possibly worse, without it.

[zeph]

Tinfoil hat time: It seems to me Stroll Sr. is steadily accumulating political clout in F1, and a lot of things are coming up Lance. It feels like he was supposed to win today, but he botched up his restart and divine justice smiled on Gasly today.

As happy as I am for Gasly, this race has left me with a bad aftertaste; the race stop and restart were unnecessary and clearly done to inject some excitement and unpredictability.

I found it interesting that Button said he had never seen those pit lights before, considering he was in F1 for like 17 seasons.

[sosic2121]

Just think if Merc let Hamilton stay out instead of foolishly boxing him at the end of the first lap he may have got both Ricciardo and Bottas.

That surely would've changed nothing. He was in free air both before and after coming in.

Exactly.

Not only that, but if they waited they would loose the opportunity to gain from next SC. so right call from them

[zeph]

I normally don't post on race threads but here goes ...

Hulkenberg has a car failure of some description, I really don't care what it was only that he had it. He does the decent thing by moving offline and crawling around the track for a section of barrier marked in orange paint. This indicates that there is an area with marshals that can move the car off track safely. Except in this case, the marshals have some sort of tent and table there so the area is completely useless.

So instead of clearing that out of the way and pulling the car back, the marshals and race organisers go "hey, the pit lane isn't far from here. push it there!" and they do. This instigates a full safety car (!) and a very rarely seen message to close the pit lane during this process.

In fact it's so rarely seen, that the message clarifying the situation is not immediately visible. It's instead on page 4 (!) of the timing sheets and in Mercedes case, only one person back at Brackley HQ spots it. By the time that's communicated back to pitlane, Hamilton has made an illegal pitstop. Wow.

Now we get to the track stuff. There's red lights on the left hand side of the track. Problem is it's a right hand corner and the drivers are understandably looking right so they miss it unless told by the team. Turns out there's a board being waved by the marshals prior to all this ... but it says "SC" with zero indication that the pitlane is closed.

The team on the pitwall get a strange SC X X type sign they've never seen before. As Diesel has stated in previous posts, there's no real explanation what this is or standardisation of this message according to the rules. Thus momentary confusion reigns.

So with all of this in mind, while Mercedes and Alfa Romeo did make a mistake and break the rules it wasn't exactly bloody easy to avoid? Chaos reigned supreme at this point!

I have enough blame for the marshals, the FIA and the teams to go round on this.

As for the rest of the race? What race? Stayed precessional after the restart with the exceptions of Raikonnen going backwards and Hamilton driving like a man possessed. Again. And we had Sky F1 commentator calling for reverse grid races for qualifying on the basis of this? Well I didn't have much respect for Crofty but he's just entered the Christian Horner gobshite arena now. Brundle managed to point "some" of this out but also got suckered by the reverse grid concept. Well, reverse grids work in spec series but F1 is NOT a spec series! This is the same knee jerk reaction to Canada 2011 that got us these shitty bubblegum consistency tyres.

For me this is just a new low. We've had mistake compounded on mistake here and it's provided some excitement but basically disguised an utterly dull race.

hear hear

[selvam_e2002]

the Italian race reminded me 2010 to 2013 F1 WCC and WDC. If you got pole then you got the lead to win race. You cannot overtake in the race and it is very difficult. Now I think F1 makes same mistake here with banning the engine mode. How difficult to overtake even with DRS.

The race got interested when Safety car. If Mercedes did not make that Pit mistake then Hamilton finish with 30 second gap to second place Gassly.

I am totally against with this rule. coming days, it will be over boaring.

worst affected team, RB. The rule introduced to slow down Mercedes not RB.

[Manoah2u]

I normally don't post on race threads but here goes ...

Hulkenberg has a car failure of some description, I really don't care what it was only that he had it. He does the decent thing by moving offline and crawling around the track for a section of barrier marked in orange paint. This indicates that there is an area with marshals that can move the car off track safely. Except in this case, the marshals have some sort of tent and table there so the area is completely useless.

So instead of clearing that out of the way and pulling the car back, the marshals and race organisers go "hey, the pit lane isn't far from here. push it there!" and they do. This instigates a full safety car (!) and a very rarely seen message to close the pit lane during this process.

In fact it's so rarely seen, that the message clarifying the situation is not immediately visible. It's instead on page 4 (!) of the timing sheets and in Mercedes case, only one person back at Brackley HQ spots it. By the time that's communicated back to pitlane, Hamilton has made an illegal pitstop. Wow.

Now we get to the track stuff. There's red lights on the left hand side of the track. Problem is it's a right hand corner and the drivers are understandably looking right so they miss it unless told by the team. Turns out there's a board being waved by the marshals prior to all this ... but it says "SC" with zero indication that the pitlane is closed.

The team on the pitwall get a strange SC X X type sign they've never seen before. As Diesel has stated in previous posts, there's no real explanation what this is or standardisation of this message according to the rules. Thus momentary confusion reigns.

So with all of this in mind, while Mercedes and Alfa Romeo did make a mistake and break the rules it wasn't exactly bloody easy to avoid? Chaos reigned supreme at this point!

I have enough blame for the marshals, the FIA and the teams to go round on this.

As for the rest of the race? What race? Stayed precessional after the restart with the exceptions of Raikonnen going backwards and Hamilton driving like a man possessed. Again. And we had Sky F1 commentator calling for reverse grid races for qualifying on the basis of this? Well I didn't have much respect for Crofty but he's just entered the Christian Horner gobshite arena now. Brundle managed to point "some" of this out but also got suckered by the reverse grid concept. Well, reverse grids work in spec series but F1 is NOT a spec series! This is the same knee jerk reaction to Canada 2011 that got us these shitty bubblegum consistency tyres.

For me this is just a new low. We've had mistake compounded on mistake here and it's provided some excitement but basically disguised an utterly dull race.

Hulkenberg?

[Moore77]

Code: Select all

[quote=algebraist post_id=925485 time=1599446268 user_id=39553]
I normally don't post on race threads but here goes ...

[b]Hulkenberg[/b] has a car failure of some description, I really don't care what it was only that he had it. He does the decent thing by moving offline and crawling around the track for a section of barrier marked in orange paint. This indicates that there is an area with marshals that can move the car off track safely. Except in this case, the marshals have some sort of tent and table there so the area is completely useless.

So instead of clearing that out of the way and pulling the car back, the marshals and race organisers go "hey, the pit lane isn't far from here. push it there!" and they do. This instigates a full safety car (!) and a very rarely seen message to close the pit lane during this process.

In fact it's so rarely seen, that the message clarifying the situation is not immediately visible. It's instead on page 4 (!) of the timing sheets and in Mercedes case, only one person back at Brackley HQ spots it. By the time that's communicated back to pitlane, Hamilton has made an illegal pitstop. Wow.

Now we get to the track stuff. There's red lights on the left hand side of the track. Problem is it's a right hand corner and the drivers are understandably looking right so they miss it unless told by the team. Turns out there's a board being waved by the marshals prior to all this ... but it says "SC" with zero indication that the pitlane is closed.

The team on the pitwall get a strange SC X X type sign they've never seen before. As Diesel has stated in previous posts, there's no real explanation what this is or standardisation of this message according to the rules. Thus momentary confusion reigns.

So with all of this in mind, while Mercedes and Alfa Romeo did make a mistake and break the rules it wasn't exactly bloody easy to avoid? Chaos reigned supreme at this point!

I have enough blame for the marshals, the FIA and the teams to go round on this.

As for the rest of the race? What race? Stayed precessional after the restart with the exceptions of Raikonnen going backwards and Hamilton driving like a man possessed. Again. And we had Sky F1 commentator calling for reverse grid races for qualifying on the basis of this? Well I didn't have much respect for Crofty but he's just entered the Christian Horner gobshite arena now. Brundle managed to point "some" of this out but also got suckered by the reverse grid concept. Well, reverse grids work in spec series but F1 is NOT a spec series! This is the same knee jerk reaction to Canada 2011 that got us these shitty bubblegum consistency tyres.

For me this is just a new low. We've had mistake compounded on mistake here and it's provided some excitement but basically disguised an utterly dull race.
[/quote]

Hulkenberg?

It doesn't matter what the name is.

[i70q7m7ghw]

It’s just been too long Ago the previous time the pitlane was closed. People easily forget what to do. Even a top team. No warning at all to Lewis. Just like last year Mexico when RBR failed to get on the radio to Max to say yellow abort lap, pole is safe. They had like 30 seconds back then. Nothing. This time around they had less time, but still, as soon as the pitlane is closed the race engineer should come on the radio. Pit closed, stay out.

And yes, the drivers themselves should also remain vigilant. They are top class in a professional series. We can think of excuses, and that’s also fine to do, but better not do that. Swallow the pill, learn from it and internalize it for the next race.

It shouldn't be dependent on radio or electronic marker boards though, everything should have a physical equivalent which cannot fail, and cannot be disputed. That's true for every other type of flag or the "SC" board, but that's simply not true for the pit lane closure, and it needs to be fixed. This race is done, the result is the result and the rules were the rules at the time, but that doesn't mean the rules can't be improved as a result of this.

EDIT: To add, if pitlane closure is something that changes from circuit to circuit because of the nature of the facilities i.e. some may have a traffic light system whereas others don't, then this is something that MUST always be covered in the pre-race drivers briefing conducted by the race director.

[Sieper]

It’s just been too long Ago the previous time the pitlane was closed. People easily forget what to do. Even a top team. No warning at all to Lewis. Just like last year Mexico when RBR failed to get on the radio to Max to say yellow abort lap, pole is safe. They had like 30 seconds back then. Nothing. This time around they had less time, but still, as soon as the pitlane is closed the race engineer should come on the radio. Pit closed, stay out.

And yes, the drivers themselves should also remain vigilant. They are top class in a professional series. We can think of excuses, and that’s also fine to do, but better not do that. Swallow the pill, learn from it and internalize it for the next race.

It shouldn't be dependent on radio or electronic marker boards though, everything should have a physical equivalent which cannot fail, and cannot be disputed. That's true for every other type of flag or the "SC" board, but that's simply not true for the pit lane closure, and it needs to be fixed. This race is done, the result is the result and the rules were the rules at the time, but that doesn't mean the rules can't be improved as a result of this.

EDIT: To add, if pitlane closure is something that changes from circuit to circuit because of the nature of the facilities i.e. some may have a traffic light system whereas others don't, then this is something that MUST always be covered in the pre-race drivers briefing conducted by the race director.

All bases are covered, who knows what has been discussed in the drivers meeting. Not unlikely this actually has been discussed pre race, or is in the papers. Plus there were red Xses. I can see a driver gets confused/missed it but this is clear enough. Not saying they can’t improve that further, by all means do. That is also why I started with “it is too long ago” as I am sure fir the foreseeable time everybody Will be acutely aware.

[siskue2005]

It’s just been too long Ago the previous time the pitlane was closed. People easily forget what to do. Even a top team. No warning at all to Lewis. Just like last year Mexico when RBR failed to get on the radio to Max to say yellow abort lap, pole is safe. They had like 30 seconds back then. Nothing. This time around they had less time, but still, as soon as the pitlane is closed the race engineer should come on the radio. Pit closed, stay out.

And yes, the drivers themselves should also remain vigilant. They are top class in a professional series. We can think of excuses, and that’s also fine to do, but better not do that. Swallow the pill, learn from it and internalize it for the next race.

It shouldn't be dependent on radio or electronic marker boards though, everything should have a physical equivalent which cannot fail, and cannot be disputed. That's true for every other type of flag or the "SC" board, but that's simply not true for the pit lane closure, and it needs to be fixed. This race is done, the result is the result and the rules were the rules at the time, but that doesn't mean the rules can't be improved as a result of this.

EDIT: To add, if pitlane closure is something that changes from circuit to circuit because of the nature of the facilities i.e. some may have a traffic light system whereas others don't, then this is something that MUST always be covered in the pre-race drivers briefing conducted by the race director.

All bases are covered, who knows what has been discussed in the drivers meeting. Not unlikely this actually has been discussed pre race, or is in the papers. Plus there were red Xses. I can see a driver gets confused/missed it but this is clear enough. Not saying they can’t improve that further, by all means do. That is also why I started with “it is too long ago” as I am sure fir the foreseeable time everybody Will be acutely aware.

No, they have not discussed, Acoording to Lewis this is the first time he is hearing about this

http://www.silverarrows.net/news/lewis- ... 6nkJ4zACIA

[Unc1eM0nty]

Mercedes have issues, issues in following other cars, when in low downforce, they seem to add more on, great for Qualifying, not great for the race unless they are in clean air out the front.

Mugello looks as if its going to be a good one!!!

Bottas has issues following other cars, Lewis seemed to do ok, yes most were back markers so they were easy meat, Perez and Ocon were more of a challenge.