2020 Tuscan Grand Prix - Mugello, September 11 - 13

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El Scorchio
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Re: 2020 Tuscan Grand Prix - Mugello, September 11 - 13

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Andres125sx wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:07 am
Did FIA provided any explanation about the SC switching off lights so late?
There was a quote from Bottas in a BBC article about it, where the team, or teams, raised concerns about it, but they were told it wouldn't change because (not even kidding) it was good for 'the show'.

That's drivers ploughing into each other at high speed. Good for the show.

Bottas said Mercedes had raised their concerns about the potential for exactly this sort of incident before the race at Mugello. They had noted that the FIA had been delaying the safety car lights going off further at every instance over a series of support races during the weekend.

"Our team opened up the discussion this morning before the race that it is a bit of a concern here," he said. "But they said basically they are going to keep doing it because it is better for the show.

Wass85
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Re: 2020 Tuscan Grand Prix - Mugello, September 11 - 13

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nzjrs wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:54 am
Wass85 wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:27 am
In my opinion overtaking should be allowed as soon as the leading driver makes his move.
How do you judge when he has made his move?
The same as they do now?

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Re: 2020 Tuscan Grand Prix - Mugello, September 11 - 13

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Wass85 wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:12 am
nzjrs wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:54 am
Wass85 wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:27 am
In my opinion overtaking should be allowed as soon as the leading driver makes his move.
How do you judge when he has made his move?
The same as they do now?
If it's just down to when the leader makes his move, i.e. a point in time, he could just drive around at 50mph for the remaining laps. There has to be a point in space (the control line) where the race is reactivated. That's the start/finish line for obvious reasons.

Perhaps the position of the "point in space" should be track specific. At Mugello, for example, going as soon as you're out of the last corner means the pack gets a great tow. So they go at the start / finish line as we saw on Sunday to try to minimise the tow advantage. Maybe they need to allow the drivers to take over the pace car duty earlier at places like Mugello but then allow overtaking earlier. Or don't allow it until much closer to T1 i.e. move the control line up near the 150m board.
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RZS10
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Re: 2020 Tuscan Grand Prix - Mugello, September 11 - 13

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El Scorchio wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:05 am
Andres125sx wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:07 am
Did FIA provided any explanation about the SC switching off lights so late?
There was a quote from Bottas in a BBC article about it, where the team, or teams, raised concerns about it, but they were told it wouldn't change because (not even kidding) it was good for 'the show'.

That's drivers ploughing into each other at high speed. Good for the show.

Bottas said Mercedes had raised their concerns about the potential for exactly this sort of incident before the race at Mugello. They had noted that the FIA had been delaying the safety car lights going off further at every instance over a series of support races during the weekend.

"Our team opened up the discussion this morning before the race that it is a bit of a concern here," he said. "But they said basically they are going to keep doing it because it is better for the show.
Oh and Masi, defending himself and the decision makers, claimed this:
“Simply put, they can criticize all they want. If we have a look at a distance perspective from where the lights were extinguished to the control line, probably not dissimilar, if not longer, than a number of other venues."

Which was a blatant lie.
It was the shortest distance compared to previous races - there's a clear trend of doing it later and later from race to race.
In Austria the lights turned off with 33% of the lap distance and several corners to go.
In Silverstone it was down to 30% but still a long distance, entirety of hangar straight + 4 corners
Spa 18% ... blanchimont + bus stop
Monza 18% ... back straight + parabolica
Mugello 18% ... roughly one corner to go whilst waiting for the SC to dive into the pits, so realistically just the straight
In absolute distances it went from 1.5km+ to less than 1km - the 1.5km they had in Austria would have given Bottas the last chicane and the last corner to dictate the pace.

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Big Tea
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Re: 2020 Tuscan Grand Prix - Mugello, September 11 - 13

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Maybe it should be always on an exit from a corner, as then the field can see the leaders?

Having said that, this was a once off and may be being blown out of proportion, and left alone.
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nzjrs
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Re: 2020 Tuscan Grand Prix - Mugello, September 11 - 13

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basti313 wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:05 am
nzjrs wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:54 am
Wass85 wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:27 am
In my opinion overtaking should be allowed as soon as the leading driver makes his move.
How do you judge when he has made his move?
It is a simple thing in many racing series...pack comes together to the last corner, lead car crosses the line, lights go green, racing starts.The way they did it in F1 with a quarter of a lap time for the lead car to disappear is completely uncommon.

I am surprised by all this discussions...last week the stupid discussion about pit lane lights that were thoroughly marked in the track description for the weekend. This week Bottas claims they were well aware about how the safety car starts will be and still...the midfield gets surprised...like this is something unheard of and never discussed in the team.
These drivers need to start preparing for the race and not just earn millions. This is the same nonsense like if a soccer player tells after his red card "I did not know the rule".
Yes, well that's just another spatial regulation, just a slightly different one. If you judge it by the *behaviour* of the lead car - when he 'goes', then it's all subjective bollocks - which is what my question was getting to.

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Re: 2020 Tuscan Grand Prix - Mugello, September 11 - 13

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:49 am
Wass85 wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:12 am
nzjrs wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:54 am


How do you judge when he has made his move?
The same as they do now?
If it's just down to when the leader makes his move, i.e. a point in time, he could just drive around at 50mph for the remaining laps. There has to be a point in space (the control line) where the race is reactivated. That's the start/finish line for obvious reasons.

Perhaps the position of the "point in space" should be track specific. At Mugello, for example, going as soon as you're out of the last corner means the pack gets a great tow. So they go at the start / finish line as we saw on Sunday to try to minimise the tow advantage. Maybe they need to allow the drivers to take over the pace car duty earlier at places like Mugello but then allow overtaking earlier. Or don't allow it until much closer to T1 i.e. move the control line up near the 150m board.
Yes of course within reason, say after the end of sector 2 or much later to prevent the leader getting swamped.

Maybe do away with it completely and only allow drivers to floor it after the start/finish line in single file?

kalinka
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Re: 2020 Tuscan Grand Prix - Mugello, September 11 - 13

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It's simple - cars not lined up correctly/ big gaps between cars...etc...no green flag..one more lap and try again. Anyone doing it twice > drive trough penalty.

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Mudflap
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Re: 2020 Tuscan Grand Prix - Mugello, September 11 - 13

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FIA's duty is to protect the drivers from themselves. I find it completely unacceptable they are putting the blame on the drivers.

It's impossible to completely prevent a hot headed pilot from doing something silly, however the onus is on FIA to minimize such occurences as much as reasonably possible. Delaying the safety car lights does exactly the opposite.
nah pop no style

basti313
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Re: 2020 Tuscan Grand Prix - Mugello, September 11 - 13

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Wass85 wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:09 am
Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:49 am
Wass85 wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:12 am


The same as they do now?
If it's just down to when the leader makes his move, i.e. a point in time, he could just drive around at 50mph for the remaining laps. There has to be a point in space (the control line) where the race is reactivated. That's the start/finish line for obvious reasons.

Perhaps the position of the "point in space" should be track specific. At Mugello, for example, going as soon as you're out of the last corner means the pack gets a great tow. So they go at the start / finish line as we saw on Sunday to try to minimise the tow advantage. Maybe they need to allow the drivers to take over the pace car duty earlier at places like Mugello but then allow overtaking earlier. Or don't allow it until much closer to T1 i.e. move the control line up near the 150m board.
Yes of course within reason, say after the end of sector 2 or much later to prevent the leader getting swamped.

Maybe do away with it completely and only allow drivers to floor it after the start/finish line in single file?
They could just do 5 laps without overtaking. Then the field is well sorted so that they can do the usual two or three laps to activate DRS. #-o

Seriously: What is the point of making SC restarts uninteresting?

Wass85
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Re: 2020 Tuscan Grand Prix - Mugello, September 11 - 13

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basti313 wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:31 am
Wass85 wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:09 am
Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:49 am


If it's just down to when the leader makes his move, i.e. a point in time, he could just drive around at 50mph for the remaining laps. There has to be a point in space (the control line) where the race is reactivated. That's the start/finish line for obvious reasons.

Perhaps the position of the "point in space" should be track specific. At Mugello, for example, going as soon as you're out of the last corner means the pack gets a great tow. So they go at the start / finish line as we saw on Sunday to try to minimise the tow advantage. Maybe they need to allow the drivers to take over the pace car duty earlier at places like Mugello but then allow overtaking earlier. Or don't allow it until much closer to T1 i.e. move the control line up near the 150m board.
Yes of course within reason, say after the end of sector 2 or much later to prevent the leader getting swamped.

Maybe do away with it completely and only allow drivers to floor it after the start/finish line in single file?
They could just do 5 laps without overtaking. Then the field is well sorted so that they can do the usual two or three laps to activate DRS. #-o

Seriously: What is the point of making SC restarts uninteresting?
I'm with you, I wouldn't change a thing because of a knee jerk reaction to this pile up.

In fact I want more racing at the restarts.

kalinka
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Re: 2020 Tuscan Grand Prix - Mugello, September 11 - 13

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SC restarts are uninteresting because they can"t follow each other cloesly after 1-2 corners. Either you make your move at the end of the straight or you're doomed for the rest of the lap.

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El Scorchio
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Re: 2020 Tuscan Grand Prix - Mugello, September 11 - 13

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Mudflap wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:22 am
FIA's duty is to protect the drivers from themselves. I find it completely unacceptable they are putting the blame on the drivers.

It's impossible to completely prevent a hot headed pilot from doing something silly, however the onus is on FIA to minimize such occurences as much as reasonably possible. Delaying the safety car lights does exactly the opposite.
100%
Or using the argument in any way that whatsoever 'for the show' is a bigger concern or even any sort of factor to consider in comparison to keeping drivers safe.
Someone could have been seriously hurt at that restart thanks to their screwed up priorities in decision making.

Cars could have been torpedoed side on by another at high speed, and I'm pretty sure I saw a wheel or part of a car almost entering a cockpit- halo proving it's worth right there.

basti313
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Re: 2020 Tuscan Grand Prix - Mugello, September 11 - 13

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El Scorchio wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:31 am
Mudflap wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:22 am
FIA's duty is to protect the drivers from themselves. I find it completely unacceptable they are putting the blame on the drivers.

It's impossible to completely prevent a hot headed pilot from doing something silly, however the onus is on FIA to minimize such occurences as much as reasonably possible. Delaying the safety car lights does exactly the opposite.
100%
Or using the argument in any way that whatsoever 'for the show' is a bigger concern or even any sort of factor to consider in comparison to keeping drivers safe.
Someone could have been seriously hurt at that restart thanks to their screwed up priorities in decision making.

Cars could have been torpedoed side on by another at high speed, and I'm pretty sure I saw a wheel or part of a car almost entering a cockpit- halo proving it's worth right there.
Cars overtaking each other is dangerous. So in your point of view wed should get rid of DRS, overtake button and the rest gimmicks as well?

I really have no idea why a rolling start should be too dangerous for F1...I only understand, that the current regulation is not perfectly fitting the procedure...SC speed till Start/Finish would clear things up.

Schippke
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Re: 2020 Tuscan Grand Prix - Mugello, September 11 - 13

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Regarding the Safety Car lights out issue; I fail to see how that plays any real part in the chaos that occurred on the Restart. What happened was just a very odd scenario that had the possibility of happening at other tracks too... I don't know if you could blame any 1 driver for it (definitely not Bottas, who some were suggesting in previous pages), but theoretically it could also happen at any other track with a decent long straight; Monza? Baku? etc...

Having said that, maybe they should implement a rule that upon the Safety Car being announced as coming in on said lap, the lights should be turned off upon passing the end of the timing split of Sector 2. At least then it is the same for every track. Thoughts?