[ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

This forum contains threads to discuss teams themselves. Anything not technical about the cars, including restructuring, performances etc belongs here.
User avatar
Moore77
26
Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:03 am

Re: [ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

Post

hurril wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:25 pm
The cars were allowed to use oil and it was even specified how much. That was then changed and with that there were consequences. I'll just take your word for it when it comes to the negative impact this had on Mercedes' quali performance so we can deduce that they were in fact burning it.
Removed the irrelevant noise. Until 2017, there was no governing directive around usage of oil as fuel, but under the spirit of 100kg per hour fuel flow limit, it was deemed illegal to any substances as fuel. Later, the cars were allowed to use oil as a lubricant, NOT AS A FUEL! The accusation was that Mercedes was burning "oil as fuel", which was not intended in the rules and that prompted FIA to come out with more specific regulations. Just like Mercedes was allegedly exploiting a grey area (an undesired consequence) of the regulation, Ferrari was also allegedly exploiting a grey area, which is now closed with a TD, just like in "oil burning" case. They are similar cases.

You can look through the performance jump that Mercedes used to have with oil burning Vs without in qualifying and the fact becomes apparent. Ferrari suffered more than Mercedes, but that doesn't obliviate the sins in either case. Just like we don't say, Mercedes cars were "allegedly illegal" before the oil burning TD, we can't same the Ferrari of 2019 as "allegedly illegal" either. They were legal in those given rules and with those undesired grey areas.
Last edited by Moore77 on Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Gangdom: Pom, Tom, Loverboy, Boomer.

hurril
hurril
57
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2014 12:02 pm

Re: [ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

Post

Moore77 wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:38 pm
hurril wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:25 pm
The cars were allowed to use oil and it was even specified how much. That was then changed and with that there were consequences. I'll just take your word for it when it comes to the negative impact this had on Mercedes' quali performance so we can deduce that they were in fact burning it.
Removed the irrelevant noise. Until 2017, there was no governing directive around usage of oil. Later, the cars were allowed to use oil as a lubricant, NOT AS A FUEL! The accusation was that Mercedes was burning "oil as fuel", which was not intended in the rules and that prompted FIA to come out with more specific regulations. Just like Mercedes was allegedly exploiting a grey area (an undesired consequence) of the regulation, Ferrari was also allegedly exploiting a grey area, which is now closed with a TD, just like in "oil burning" case. They are similar cases.

You can look through the performance jump that Mercedes used to have with oil burning Vs without in qualifying and the fact becomes apparent. Ferrari suffered more than Mercedes, but that doesn't obliviate the sins in either case. Just like we don't say, Mercedes cars were "allegedly illegal" before the oil burning TD, we can't same the Ferrari of 2019 as "allegedly illegal" either. They were legal in those given rules and with those undesired grey areas.
Look, you're making a non-sequitur here. Even if I grant you that Mercedes cheated, that does _nothing_ for your case that is trying to say that Ferrari did not. Do you understand that?

Plus: I am not a Mercedes fanboi in any way so it's not like there's an opening for a: you dissed my team so let me diss yours-scheme either. You go right ahead and rip any other team a new one, I don't care. That's not the issue at hand here.
Last edited by hurril on Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Moore77
26
Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:03 am

Re: [ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

Post

hurril wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:41 pm
Moore77 wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:38 pm
hurril wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:25 pm
The cars were allowed to use oil and it was even specified how much. That was then changed and with that there were consequences. I'll just take your word for it when it comes to the negative impact this had on Mercedes' quali performance so we can deduce that they were in fact burning it.
Removed the irrelevant noise. Until 2017, there was no governing directive around usage of oil. Later, the cars were allowed to use oil as a lubricant, NOT AS A FUEL! The accusation was that Mercedes was burning "oil as fuel", which was not intended in the rules and that prompted FIA to come out with more specific regulations. Just like Mercedes was allegedly exploiting a grey area (an undesired consequence) of the regulation, Ferrari was also allegedly exploiting a grey area, which is now closed with a TD, just like in "oil burning" case. They are similar cases.

You can look through the performance jump that Mercedes used to have with oil burning Vs without in qualifying and the fact becomes apparent. Ferrari suffered more than Mercedes, but that doesn't obliviate the sins in either case. Just like we don't say, Mercedes cars were "allegedly illegal" before the oil burning TD, we can't same the Ferrari of 2019 as "allegedly illegal" either. They were legal in those given rules and with those undesired grey areas.
Look, you're making a non-sequitur here. Even if I grant you that Mercedes cheated, that does _nothing_ for your case that is trying to say that Ferrari did not. Do you understand that?
Oh, so that's the confusion for you here. SO you did not read what I have been writing. My take is, neither Mercedes cheated, nor did Ferrari! They simply exploited grey areas and you can't call that as CHEATING. Just becasue FIA realized they were dumb and then came out with Technical Directives to close those loop holes, they don't retro fit it. So you can't call the previous car as "illegal" by any means.
Gangdom: Pom, Tom, Loverboy, Boomer.

hurril
hurril
57
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2014 12:02 pm

Re: [ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

Post

Moore77 wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:42 pm
hurril wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:41 pm
Moore77 wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:38 pm
Removed the irrelevant noise. Until 2017, there was no governing directive around usage of oil. Later, the cars were allowed to use oil as a lubricant, NOT AS A FUEL! The accusation was that Mercedes was burning "oil as fuel", which was not intended in the rules and that prompted FIA to come out with more specific regulations. Just like Mercedes was allegedly exploiting a grey area (an undesired consequence) of the regulation, Ferrari was also allegedly exploiting a grey area, which is now closed with a TD, just like in "oil burning" case. They are similar cases.

You can look through the performance jump that Mercedes used to have with oil burning Vs without in qualifying and the fact becomes apparent. Ferrari suffered more than Mercedes, but that doesn't obliviate the sins in either case. Just like we don't say, Mercedes cars were "allegedly illegal" before the oil burning TD, we can't same the Ferrari of 2019 as "allegedly illegal" either. They were legal in those given rules and with those undesired grey areas.
Look, you're making a non-sequitur here. Even if I grant you that Mercedes cheated, that does _nothing_ for your case that is trying to say that Ferrari did not. Do you understand that?
Oh, so that's the confusion for you here. SO you did not read what I have been writing. My take is, neither Mercedes cheated, nor did Ferrari! They simply exploited grey areas and you can't call that as CHEATING.
Is it the word cheating that you take offence to now? Tricking a sensor is not exploiting a grey area, it's evading control. And judging by the extent to which Ferrari has lost performance, their exploit (let's call it that so that you can calm down) has to have had a huge impact. So their exploit gained a huge advantage. Call it what you will: it has to go and stop whining about it.

User avatar
Moore77
26
Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:03 am

Re: [ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

Post

hurril wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:49 pm
Moore77 wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:42 pm
hurril wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:41 pm


Look, you're making a non-sequitur here. Even if I grant you that Mercedes cheated, that does _nothing_ for your case that is trying to say that Ferrari did not. Do you understand that?
Oh, so that's the confusion for you here. SO you did not read what I have been writing. My take is, neither Mercedes cheated, nor did Ferrari! They simply exploited grey areas and you can't call that as CHEATING.
Is it the word cheating that you take offence to now? Tricking a sensor is not exploiting a grey area, it's evading control. And judging by the extent to which Ferrari has lost performance, their exploit (let's call it that so that you can calm down) has to have had a huge impact. So their exploit gained a huge advantage. Call it what you will: it has to go and stop whining about it.
I don't take offence of anything! Taking your definition of, "ticking a sensor...." I can translate it to, "pushing oil in the combustion chamber, is not a grey area, it's breaking rules of fuel restriction". Whether ones advantage is big or small, doesn't matter. They belong to the same offensive category.
If you can't continue debating, feel free to stop debating. Telling me to "stop whining about it", will not do the job for you. Nope.
Gangdom: Pom, Tom, Loverboy, Boomer.

User avatar
Moore77
26
Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:03 am

Re: [ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

Post

hurril wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:41 pm
Plus: I am not a Mercedes fanboi in any way so it's not like there's an opening for a: you dissed my team so let me diss yours-scheme either. You go right ahead and rip any other team a new one, I don't care. That's not the issue at hand here.
Why do you even bother about clarifying your position to me? I don't debate with anyone with a premeditated belief that, you must be so and so and your position is this or that. It's very childish of people who do that. You first accused me of "marrying ferrari" and all such stuff. I didn't. Once again, I see those difficult emotions in your words there.
Gangdom: Pom, Tom, Loverboy, Boomer.

User avatar
subcritical71
94
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:04 pm
Location: USA-Florida

Re: [ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

Post

Polite wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:59 pm
subcritical71 wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:37 pm
Polite wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:01 pm


because AMG didnt attend the gentleman agreement on burning oil: 0,6l per 100km in race.. Mercedes won with an ice burning 0,9lper100km from Monza till the end of the yaer
https://azertag.az/en/xeber/FIA_confirm ... it-1089458

Toto also said this year that they are still burning oil while lubrification is done with new exotic materials..
Show me an engine that isn't burning oil and I'll show you a car (engine) that is parked in the grass runoff area.
Rumors on Renault is that they dont burn oil at all.
My first thought is, impossible. My second is, could I be wrong about that(!)

hurril
hurril
57
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2014 12:02 pm

Re: [ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

Post

Moore77 wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:06 pm
hurril wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:41 pm
Plus: I am not a Mercedes fanboi in any way so it's not like there's an opening for a: you dissed my team so let me diss yours-scheme either. You go right ahead and rip any other team a new one, I don't care. That's not the issue at hand here.
Why do you even bother about clarifying your position to me? I don't debate with anyone with a premeditated belief that, you must be so and so and your position is this or that. It's very childish of people who do that. You first accused me of "marrying ferrari" and all such stuff. I didn't. Once again, I see those difficult emotions in your words there.
I'm sorry that Ferrari hurt you.

Pany
Pany
9
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 9:26 am

Re: [ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

Post

O am Italian and like Ferrari, but I am not supid. Surely they were cheating, but formula 1 needs Ferrari, so FIA had to cover things. Other teams in a way accept it because is in the circus interest.
Moore77 wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:42 pm
hurril wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:41 pm
Moore77 wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:38 pm
Removed the irrelevant noise. Until 2017, there was no governing directive around usage of oil. Later, the cars were allowed to use oil as a lubricant, NOT AS A FUEL! The accusation was that Mercedes was burning "oil as fuel", which was not intended in the rules and that prompted FIA to come out with more specific regulations. Just like Mercedes was allegedly exploiting a grey area (an undesired consequence) of the regulation, Ferrari was also allegedly exploiting a grey area, which is now closed with a TD, just like in "oil burning" case. They are similar cases.

You can look through the performance jump that Mercedes used to have with oil burning Vs without in qualifying and the fact becomes apparent. Ferrari suffered more than Mercedes, but that doesn't obliviate the sins in either case. Just like we don't say, Mercedes cars were "allegedly illegal" before the oil burning TD, we can't same the Ferrari of 2019 as "allegedly illegal" either. They were legal in those given rules and with those undesired grey areas.
Look, you're making a non-sequitur here. Even if I grant you that Mercedes cheated, that does _nothing_ for your case that is trying to say that Ferrari did not. Do you understand that?
Oh, so that's the confusion for you here. SO you did not read what I have been writing. My take is, neither Mercedes cheated, nor did Ferrari! They simply exploited grey areas and you can't call that as CHEATING. Just becasue FIA realized they were dumb and then came out with Technical Directives to close those loop holes, they don't retro fit it. So you can't call the previous car as "illegal" by any means.

Jolle
Jolle
199
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:58 pm
Location: Dordrecht

Re: [ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

Post

But... my original question... as for hopes for 2022, did Ferrari made any substantial changes that this time they will be on top of the car?

My feeling is, if they just keep on working like they did in the post-brawn years, 22 will be a repeat of ‘09, ‘14 and ‘17.

Schippke
Schippke
2
Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2020 3:00 am
Location: Australia

Re: [ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

Post

Jolle wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:07 pm
But... my original question... as for hopes for 2022, did Ferrari made any substantial changes that this time they will be on top of the car?

My feeling is, if they just keep on working like they did in the post-brawn years, 22 will be a repeat of ‘09, ‘14 and ‘17.
2009 and 2014 were definitely a fall from the previous seasons, though I'd argue 2017 was a bit of a turnaround on form, being able to challenge Mercedes at numerous events.

Realistically, Ferrari needs to get is engine back on par with the others performance wise; That is the first thing and they'll have a chance to do that in 2021... there's talks of a whole new ICE being developed for next year, so hopefully that brings some desired results.

Into 2022... there's been a considerable amount of internal restructures for this season in the hope of a more efficient chain of command moving forward, so it is too early to see what results that'll bring. However, when you compare how they've been performing as a team compared to the likes of Mercedes and Red Bull... they've got a long way to go. I sincerely hope that as of 12:01am January 1st 2021, they through every possibly cent and resource into the new 2022 regulations. Only benefit in them finishing lower in the standings this season is that they'll have more time for R/D for 2021 to focus on the new regulations...

Another dark horse is McLaren having a Mercedes engine at their disposal, but that's another story...

mafeotul
mafeotul
4
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:30 am

Re: [ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

Post

Moore77 wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:01 pm
hurril wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:49 pm
Moore77 wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:42 pm
Oh, so that's the confusion for you here. SO you did not read what I have been writing. My take is, neither Mercedes cheated, nor did Ferrari! They simply exploited grey areas and you can't call that as CHEATING.
Is it the word cheating that you take offence to now? Tricking a sensor is not exploiting a grey area, it's evading control. And judging by the extent to which Ferrari has lost performance, their exploit (let's call it that so that you can calm down) has to have had a huge impact. So their exploit gained a huge advantage. Call it what you will: it has to go and stop whining about it.
I don't take offence of anything! Taking your definition of, "ticking a sensor...." I can translate it to, "pushing oil in the combustion chamber, is not a grey area, it's breaking rules of fuel restriction". Whether ones advantage is big or small, doesn't matter. They belong to the same offensive category.
If you can't continue debating, feel free to stop debating. Telling me to "stop whining about it", will not do the job for you. Nope.
I'm sorry I had to get involved, and do not read me wrong in any of my arguments, I do not want to be coming onto this conversation as one sided, or influenced, not even as a fan of a team. Let's have this discussion as a sport consumer. I unfortunately do not posses that much technical prowess, not as much as I would like. But please read me out here. There are a lot of arguments to be made.

I would like to start with this. It is pretty much, supposed, if not low-key confirmed the engine shenanigans have started with the 2018 season, or at least during that period. It was then when if you remember, Lauda himself was scandalised by the performance gains. ( My sweet guess is that Mercedes knew was what going on pretty early, but chose to stay silent and deploy any information tactically. Using RBR a season later as an "attack dog" does seem to confirm this.) We must look now at how long it actually takes to develop an engine, and the overall development plans, which from my understanding takes years. ( One example is DAS - started in 2018 - implemented in 2020). I am also set to assume that the engine "plan" would have had to be an older idea, and judging by the way Ferrari's power transpired onto the seasons 2018-2019 it seems like again I am right. They were on the rise, both in results, qualifying pace, race pace, not necessarily on reliability, or strategy. We might as well speak about Vettel the should be champion of 2018 if not for the poor aero upgrades ( I believe brought in Russia 18 with correlation issues ) and the enormous mistakes that he made. Now, going onto 2019 what truly staggered me, ( and this is where I might need a "clarification"), was this. Following the summer brake, SF90 goes from a low drag car, with a jet-engine on the back, with clear aero correlation issues, and tyre issues, to SF90 still a low drag car, but with the Apollo 11 thrusters at the back, in fact so powerful it defied all the other issues. This is where it goes even more weird for me as a fan, and a spectator. My ELI5 understanding is that in 2019 we were on year 6 in the current engine formula. 4 engine manufacturers, billions invested, probably hundreds of thousands if not million of hours of research, including the brightest engineers, and the biggest names of them all, and still there was not one soul on the grid that can explain the sudden performance gain. We are talking 8 tenths on a single straight here, not 2 tenths at the end of the lap. I still remember watching the battle between a Merc at full chat with DRS, against Charles in Monza, and it was like watching lapped cars trying to un-lap themselves.

There are many such occasions on why I thought the entire experience was off putting, most notable was the one I have mentioned. In all my recent years, I have never seen anything like it, so to classify this as a grey-area is for me personally highly unlikely. A grey area is the DAS, even the oil-burning, with the incremental performance gain. But I cannot think of a single grey area which had this much of an impact. Another very important bit of "evidence" would be the agreement, the way it was handled and most notably and the one I am getting to is the performance drop.

If the difference was not evident enough, such as statements from Mattia regarding the redesign of the entire engine, ( not necessarily needed if it is just a loop in the rules they exploited ) but to go from breath-taking dominance to 2016 power levels with two TD's emitted is simply unheard of in Formula 1. I defended Ferrari all the time last year, but I cannot for the life of me accept that this is the case anymore. There must have been something severely out of line, with that PU in order to see such a drop in such short notice. The truth is that most likely we will never know the real truth. There are many speculations, spies, lies, cheating, secrets etc. Typical of the unknown in the high stakes of a billion dollar business. What we know is certain, every team renders these grey areas, and incorporates them in a car. 5/10 they get caught, some red handed like Renault with the brakes, some a bit too clever for the FIA themselves such as the DAS, but removing these loopholes only causes small blips, small dips in what is normal and naturally an increasing curve in development. While the Ferrari saga created an Everest in gains, followed by a Mariana Trench in losses. There is no loop-hole that big in the current state of the "game". Keep in mind, I am not saying they were cheating, but it's incredibly difficult, day by day, to say no they weren't.

hape
hape
5
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:17 pm

Re: [ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

Post

mafeotul wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:13 am
Moore77 wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:01 pm
hurril wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:49 pm


Is it the word cheating that you take offence to now? Tricking a sensor is not exploiting a grey area, it's evading control. And judging by the extent to which Ferrari has lost performance, their exploit (let's call it that so that you can calm down) has to have had a huge impact. So their exploit gained a huge advantage. Call it what you will: it has to go and stop whining about it.
I don't take offence of anything! Taking your definition of, "ticking a sensor...." I can translate it to, "pushing oil in the combustion chamber, is not a grey area, it's breaking rules of fuel restriction". Whether ones advantage is big or small, doesn't matter. They belong to the same offensive category.
If you can't continue debating, feel free to stop debating. Telling me to "stop whining about it", will not do the job for you. Nope.
I'm sorry I had to get involved, and do not read me wrong in any of my arguments, I do not want to be coming onto this conversation as one sided, or influenced, not even as a fan of a team. Let's have this discussion as a sport consumer. I unfortunately do not posses that much technical prowess, not as much as I would like. But please read me out here. There are a lot of arguments to be made.

I would like to start with this. It is pretty much, supposed, if not low-key confirmed the engine shenanigans have started with the 2018 season, or at least during that period. It was then when if you remember, Lauda himself was scandalised by the performance gains. ( My sweet guess is that Mercedes knew was what going on pretty early, but chose to stay silent and deploy any information tactically. Using RBR a season later as an "attack dog" does seem to confirm this.) We must look now at how long it actually takes to develop an engine, and the overall development plans, which from my understanding takes years. ( One example is DAS - started in 2018 - implemented in 2020). I am also set to assume that the engine "plan" would have had to be an older idea, and judging by the way Ferrari's power transpired onto the seasons 2018-2019 it seems like again I am right. They were on the rise, both in results, qualifying pace, race pace, not necessarily on reliability, or strategy. We might as well speak about Vettel the should be champion of 2018 if not for the poor aero upgrades ( I believe brought in Russia 18 with correlation issues ) and the enormous mistakes that he made. Now, going onto 2019 what truly staggered me, ( and this is where I might need a "clarification"), was this. Following the summer brake, SF90 goes from a low drag car, with a jet-engine on the back, with clear aero correlation issues, and tyre issues, to SF90 still a low drag car, but with the Apollo 11 thrusters at the back, in fact so powerful it defied all the other issues. This is where it goes even more weird for me as a fan, and a spectator. My ELI5 understanding is that in 2019 we were on year 6 in the current engine formula. 4 engine manufacturers, billions invested, probably hundreds of thousands if not million of hours of research, including the brightest engineers, and the biggest names of them all, and still there was not one soul on the grid that can explain the sudden performance gain. We are talking 8 tenths on a single straight here, not 2 tenths at the end of the lap. I still remember watching the battle between a Merc at full chat with DRS, against Charles in Monza, and it was like watching lapped cars trying to un-lap themselves.

There are many such occasions on why I thought the entire experience was off putting, most notable was the one I have mentioned. In all my recent years, I have never seen anything like it, so to classify this as a grey-area is for me personally highly unlikely. A grey area is the DAS, even the oil-burning, with the incremental performance gain. But I cannot think of a single grey area which had this much of an impact. Another very important bit of "evidence" would be the agreement, the way it was handled and most notably and the one I am getting to is the performance drop.

If the difference was not evident enough, such as statements from Mattia regarding the redesign of the entire engine, ( not necessarily needed if it is just a loop in the rules they exploited ) but to go from breath-taking dominance to 2016 power levels with two TD's emitted is simply unheard of in Formula 1. I defended Ferrari all the time last year, but I cannot for the life of me accept that this is the case anymore. There must have been something severely out of line, with that PU in order to see such a drop in such short notice. The truth is that most likely we will never know the real truth. There are many speculations, spies, lies, cheating, secrets etc. Typical of the unknown in the high stakes of a billion dollar business. What we know is certain, every team renders these grey areas, and incorporates them in a car. 5/10 they get caught, some red handed like Renault with the brakes, some a bit too clever for the FIA themselves such as the DAS, but removing these loopholes only causes small blips, small dips in what is normal and naturally an increasing curve in development. While the Ferrari saga created an Everest in gains, followed by a Mariana Trench in losses. There is no loop-hole that big in the current state of the "game". Keep in mind, I am not saying they were cheating, but it's incredibly difficult, day by day, to say no they weren't.
The gains made by bending a rule do not determine if the bending of a rule is legal or illegal. So if Ferrari gained 2s with their trickery or 0,2s doesn’t matter.
We don’t know for sure what they did and how they did it so we don’t know if they were plain cheaters or cleverly exploiting unwanted loopholes.
Fwiw, oil trickery for me is simply cheating but I guess that’s for another thread.

Jolle
Jolle
199
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:58 pm
Location: Dordrecht

Re: [ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

Post

In the true spirit of formula one, oil burning was and still is not illegal. This is why they went the route of limiting the use of oil during a race.

Let me explain by comparing it to rear view mirror mountings. According to the rules cars aren’t allowed to have aero devices in that area but because the primary use of a mirror bracket is to hold the mirror in place, it’s allowed there and have that shape.
The same for the oil, it’s primary use is to lubricate and cool the engine, burning it and it’s gains on power are a secondary outcome from the tolerances in the engine.
Same with wishbones, that are in places where aero bodywork are forbidden and maybe the best example was the fan car, that was officially for engine cooling, because moveable aero devices were already banned back then.

Injecting more then 100KG/h of fuel in the engine is cheating, because that is the rule: no more fuel is allowed into the PU. Tricking the sensor is cheating.

hape
hape
5
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:17 pm

Re: [ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

Post

Jolle wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 9:17 pm
In the true spirit of formula one, oil burning was and still is not illegal. This is why they went the route of limiting the use of oil during a race.

Let me explain by comparing it to rear view mirror mountings. According to the rules cars aren’t allowed to have aero devices in that area but because the primary use of a mirror bracket is to hold the mirror in place, it’s allowed there and have that shape.
The same for the oil, it’s primary use is to lubricate and cool the engine, burning it and it’s gains on power are a secondary outcome from the tolerances in the engine.
Same with wishbones, that are in places where aero bodywork are forbidden and maybe the best example was the fan car, that was officially for engine cooling, because moveable aero devices were already banned back then.

Injecting more then 100KG/h of fuel in the engine is cheating, because that is the rule: no more fuel is allowed into the PU. Tricking the sensor is cheating.
I’ve decided to take away the original text as first of all this is the wrong thread and I really don’t bother to argue in length on this “oil” thing as FIA didn’t punish anyone doing so it’s deemed legal.
There are however lots more details into this than your simple explanation.
But maybe you can tell me how Ferrari tricked the FFS?